AI, ChatGPT, and the future of inbound, marketing, and business ethics (HubHeroes, Ep. 32)

[00:00:00] Liz Murphy:

Welcome back to another episode of the Hub Heroes

[00:00:05] George B. Thomas:

what?

[00:00:05] Liz Murphy:

uhoh, but
we don't have the same lineup as usual today. George,

[00:00:09] George B. Thomas:

different. Different

[00:00:10] Liz Murphy:

us who little different, we've been mixing, we've been making things spicy over the past few weeks. 

[00:00:16] George B. Thomas:

it's like, uh, it's like jalapeno green pepper, jelly jam stuff. I dunno. We're just, we're mixing up different stuff. We're creating the jams, the goodness. Yeah.

[00:00:24] Liz Murphy:

that's oddly

[00:00:25] George B. Thomas:

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:00:27] Liz Murphy:

that's an oddly

[00:00:28] George B. Thomas:

There's, it's a southern thing. Like if, if, by the way, if you're, uh, my southern folk and you know what green pepper, jam or jelly is and you like to put it on some of your little toasty toast in the morning, hit me up and let me know.

But yeah, we're, we're doing something special. Liz. I'm super excited because at the end of the day, we get to have Jorge. Ententes on the Javi, the the two, the two Georges, or the two Jorge's? We can go either way, but I'm super excited and, and if you're listening to this and you're like, uh, who, what, who's Jorge?

Couple things. First of all, Yeah. Who is Jorge? Hey, that could be a long question. We might need a couch. Yeah. Why is Jorge? We

[00:01:08] Jorge Fuentes:

Why Jorge? Absolutely.

[00:01:11] George B. Thomas:

but Jorge has, uh, 15 HubSpot certifications, which is absolutely amazing. I know, Liz, I saved that for you. I wanted to drop that right here. By the way, everybody, Liz's jaw dropped, uh, about two feet when I said that.
He's

[00:01:23] Liz Murphy:

got a lot of work to do during World Certification Week. I got a lot of work

[00:01:26] George B. Thomas:

he's, he's been hard at hard at it. and by the way, we're gonna put a link in the show notes to the actual introducing Jorge, because there are some things about him that will shock the crap out of you. especially, maybe, maybe just maybe his strategy on hiding a giraffe.
You're gonna have to check that out. 

[00:01:45] Liz Murphy:

Wait, what?

[00:01:46] Jorge Fuentes:

gotta have a strategy for that, right? Like it is

[00:01:48] Liz Murphy:

I mean, I didn't. Wait, is there like a, an imminent giraffe threat that I'm not prepared

[00:01:53] George B. Thomas:

Well, you have to have a

[00:01:54] Jorge Fuentes:

be surprised, Liz, yet?

[00:01:56] Liz Murphy:

I've got armadillos covered and wombats giraffes. I hadn't quite gotten there yet, so Jorge, we're gonna have to, can you and I just talk later? I did not realize I was caught so

[00:02:05] Jorge Fuentes:

Sure, sure. No problem at all.

[00:02:07] George B. Thomas:

Liz

[00:02:07] Jorge Fuentes:

gotta have a strategy for that.

[00:02:08] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, you gotta have a stretch for that. And Liz, you might even, uh, be double in trouble because not only is Jorge's strategy for giraffes, but's, giraffe wearing some burros

[00:02:18] Jorge Fuentes:

You gotta put something on it. 

[00:02:20] Liz Murphy:

Those are my kind of giraffes. Do they also like that weird jalapeno jelly or is that that for

[00:02:26] Jorge Fuentes:

I haven't gotten to that point yet, but they might, you know, they might enjoy that. So

 

[00:02:31] Liz Murphy:

are you doing here

[00:02:31] Jorge Fuentes:

they, yeah. Right. So like thank you guys for that introduction. Definitely George. I mean, you know, I've been, I've been working with you for the past, month or so and you know, it's been a huge learning curve.

We haven't talked too much about your drives just in the beginning, you know, cause I have that already cut off for me. But definitely like this, this is, this is great and thank you for having me on the podcast. Absolutely.

[00:02:52] George B. Thomas:

Yeah. Today we're gonna talk a little bit about more, more important things than giraffe, but now we got past that. Liz. What? Liz?

[00:03:00] Jorge Fuentes:

have to talk about that.

[00:03:00] Liz Murphy:

come for you.

[00:03:03] George B. Thomas:

giraffe.

[00:03:04] Liz Murphy:

So if all the giraffes, all the giraffes listening, his email is George George b thomas.com. You can send all complaints

[00:03:11] George B. Thomas:

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:12] Liz Murphy:

that's right. Wow. Wow. Wow.

[00:03:15] George B. Thomas:

ai uh, bot that will send them out immediately, a AI generated message, cuz that's

[00:03:21] Liz Murphy:

I don't know, man. I don't know, man. I don't know. I've heard robots are taking over the world. I've heard they'll be doing all the giraffe hiding from now on and taking all our jobs and predicting all the stocks and ruining all of our lives.
[00:03:34] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, you should probably reign us in a little.

[00:03:36] Jorge Fuentes:

I dunno about that.

[00:03:38] Liz Murphy:

you talking about? Everything's totally fine. No, I'm just kidding. Gentlemen, are you ready?

[00:03:42] Jorge Fuentes:

Let's

[00:03:43] Liz Murphy:

Are you

[00:03:43] George B. Thomas:

Let's do

[00:03:44] Liz Murphy:

Because we are talking about not giraffes, ladies and gentlemen, we are talking about ai. That's right. We are taking a step back. From our usual hyper-focused HubSpot and inbound lens to talk about a topic.

Topic that has like literally every day on LinkedIn. It's like AI's the greatest. AI's the worst. AI's taking my job. AI's taking your like It is, it is so overwhelming. And then also, let's not forget all the posts that say you have chat G B T. 99.9% of you are using it incorrectly, and then there are the thousand different ideas that everybody's just throwing at us all the

[00:04:20] George B. Thomas:

Yo. So first of all, I think I gotta go back in the recording. Because I really do think you just said chat g b t instead of chat g p t, which by the way, that's my chat bot that we need to create. But, but

[00:04:33] Liz Murphy:

that is

[00:04:33] George B. Thomas:

just go back and listen. People let me know if that's, I think that's what I heard, but, but

[00:04:38] Jorge Fuentes:

by the domain already, George

[00:04:39] George B. Thomas:

I know it. Here's the thing, Liz, what's funny, I wanna jump in here though too, not just to like, make fun of the fact that we have our own chat

[00:04:47] Liz Murphy:

To make fun of

[00:04:47] George B. Thomas:

Um, but,

[00:04:48] Liz Murphy:

to shame me publicly. Got it.

[00:04:50] George B. Thomas:

I I, I love that you're talking about. It's everywhere because one of the things, uh, my daughter Kaylee, she helps with the marketing profs, marketing Smarts podcast, like getting guests.

And she said, man, do you know the one topic that everybody on the planet wants to talk to you about right now? And I turned to her and I said, let me guess ai. And she just started laughing. She's like, yeah, everybody wants to talk about, it's everywhere. It's crazy.

[00:05:15] Liz Murphy:

Oh yeah. I mean like think about some of the, think about some of the things that we're seeing in the headlines recently, right? Like I just took a quick skim over the past week of some of the articles that have been put out there. So predicting stocks and public opinion all potentially possible with chat G P T like models.

Chat G P T the lower the barrier to entry for cyber crime. Ken Chat, g p t Predict what will happen with banks. Will AI take all of our jobs? Goldman Sachs initially predicted 300 million jobs lost, so you know, things are going great. But I did wanna share, as we go into this discussion today, I read this really fascinating piece in The Atlantic that talks about how we're seeing this waterfall of truly wild predictions.

And at least a meaningful number of them, if not all of them, will likely end up being wrong. And here's the quote from that that I wanna read to you.

[00:06:08] Jorge Fuentes:

Imagine

[00:06:09] Liz Murphy:

somebody showing you a picture of a tadpole like embryo at 10 days telling you the organism was growing exponentially and asking you to predict its species.

Is it a frog? Is it a dog, a wooly mammoth, a human being? Is it none of those things? Is it a species we've never classified before? Is it an alien? You have no way of knowing. All you know is that this thing is larval and it might become anything. And to me that's generative adii, uh, ai. This thing is larval and it might become anything, which is exactly why I wanted to have this discussion today.
Because while the future of AI and chat, g p t like solutions may still be murky at best to discern, this is still a conversation we need to be having in the HubSpot and inbound universe. Whether that's you as a business owner, a marketer, a sales pro, literally anybody who experiences the world digitally through your work, this is a conversation we have to be having today. So I wanna open up this discussion. If you guys are game,

[00:07:07] George B. Thomas:

Oh yeah. I'm game. I'm

[00:07:08] Liz Murphy:

even though we're an anti giraffe, I wanna make sure we're

[00:07:11] Jorge Fuentes:

That's all

[00:07:11] George B. Thomas:

pro ai. We're good to move forward. Yeah,

[00:07:13] Jorge Fuentes:

No problem.

[00:07:14] Liz Murphy:

Wow. So pro robot anti giraffe.

[00:07:17] George B. Thomas:

but, but.

[00:07:18] Liz Murphy:

email addresses George George b thomas.com.

[00:07:21] George B. Thomas:

we need to know right off

[00:07:22] Jorge Fuentes:

no giraffes have been hurt

[00:07:24] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, no, giraffes have been hurt,

[00:07:25] Jorge Fuentes: that that

[00:07:26] George B. Thomas:

we also have to know right off the top, like, listen, we're talking robots, we're talking giraffes. But we always know the tippy, tippy, tippy top is the humans.

[00:07:36] Liz Murphy:

there it is. I really appreciate how you've gotten progressively more awkward at squeezing that in. So I don't ever shame you about the

[00:07:43] George B. Thomas:

That's right. Like it's on my mind every beginning of the show. I gotta figure out a way to humans.

[00:07:50] Liz Murphy:

Nah. Ah, my gosh. You know what? Speaking of the humans, just kidding. I'd actually like to take everybody's temperature here for a moment. How do you feel about the AI conversation today? What excites you about it? What concerns you the most? What do we got?

[00:08:03] Jorge Fuentes:

Absolutely. So one thing, Liz is, you know, anything regarding the jobs that are gonna be lost, I'm just always hearing that, that it's gonna cause some form of massive unemployment across the board. whether it's in, uh, Europe, the us, whichever country, and, you know, you gotta also have in. In mind that, you know, there are other factors causing unemployment usually, like it can be anything from bad management decisions like poor management decisions across the board and big companies.

The large, I would say yeah, substantial debt financing across large companies, the startup world as where, as well as pretty much the tech industry. So, uh, I mean, anything that is actually causing that I wouldn't attribute. 300 million jobs lost to ai. Like I think that's an exaggerated number. It is more like I would say, Yes, some form of evolution in, in the workspace.

Like you gotta, you gotta use it. I heard like a, a quote that is about AI called, it was, it was saying something like, you know, you, your job won't be replaced by ai, but somebody using AI will replace probably your job or will be more competitive. So, I mean, I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know what you guys think, but definitely like, I, I think AI was made by humans, for humans and so to speak.

It didn't come from. You know, I, I, I, that, that's what I'm thinking. I don't know what you're thinking, George
[00:09:18] George B. Thomas: No, I'm, I'm with you. Actually. What's funny, I don't think the aliens or the frogs created ai. I'm pretty sure it

[00:09:24] Jorge Fuentes:

or the giraffe, right?

[00:09:25] George B. Thomas:

giraffe. They didn't create the AI either, but, but here's the thing. What's funny is, I think you got to the crux of it is that I would, well actually let me back up cuz I think what happens is humans have these moments in time where they allow fear to take over.
And anything that are something new, sometimes we become fearful, and that is something that I wish people would stop. I would be more afraid of people who are actually educating themselves on AI testing, AI using AI than I would be the actual ai. Like Jorge said, I think it'll be the people who learn how to use the tool for what it is a tool.
Then running away from the tool, like they're coming to invade the planet. it's gonna be a whole thing. I can't wait to dive deeper into some of these conversations as we move forward. But Liz, I, really do have more feelings than I thought I would have around this conversation and the, and the questions that we're gonna go through.
but I will say I, I am an early adopter. I love some of the things that I'm seeing. I also hate some of the things I'm seeing. So,

[00:10:32] Liz Murphy:

What do you love and what do you hate?

[00:10:33] George B. Thomas:

so I love some of the extreme creativity. That before AI and before some of the AI things like, like, here's the thing, let's just keep it close to home. Would there have ever been Hub heroes, limericks, or poems if it weren't for chat?

G P T? Probably not because we can do it so quickly and, and we're gonna talk about speed in a little bit, right? would there be apps that would allow me to make myself look like I am, like a god in space of some other planet in like 45 seconds? No, but, but this, this tool enables us some of this stuff around video, a lot of stuff around text.
Like, they're like, if you are a creative human, And can use the tool to be more creative. I just, I love that side of this. the thing that I hate, and, and by the way, hate is a strong word. So the thing that I strongly

[00:11:29] Jorge Fuentes:

right? This like, there we

[00:11:31] George B. Thomas:

is the idea of a cheat code or being a lazy person because of ai. And I'll leave it there cuz we'll probably dig in deeper later.

[00:11:40] Liz Murphy:

Yeah. You know, I, I, I would say my feelings are somewhat in the middle of this. I feel like I have about three different seemingly mutually exclusive opinions all at once. I agree with you, George. I agree that I think whenever something comes up like this, the same people who complain and fear monger about everything that's ever happened, found something brand new to be upset about, and that is always going to be true because I agree with you, there is so much opportunity.
It's a, it's a great way to work smarter. Faster if you are going into the tool with good intent. However, we have to remember that with every advancement we've ever seen technologically or otherwise, there is always going to be the band of Buttheads who come in and pee in everybody's fun cereal because they're not using the tool ethically, appropriately, or they're looking to scale.

Crappy things faster. That is always going to be true as well, and that's something we need to be mindful of. I also agree that the, the, the doomsday predictions about job loss, I am, I, again, I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, I think it's fear mongering. On the other hand, I think we're going to see a lot of changes, and I'm very curious what's gonna happen in terms of, let's just talk about entry level copywriting. Entry level copywriting and stuff. Like for example, where I got my start where a lot of people in content got their start may potentially be a little bit higher. We don't need that intern, we don't need that thing. Just throw some stuff in there. So we're gonna get more into that conversation, but I think it's a little bit more nuanced. And at the same time also though, what types of jobs will be created? Uh,

[00:13:23] George B. Thomas:

With every loss there's a gain. With every closed door there's an open one. Like there are some fundamental like. Principles of life, you know, how many social media consultants do we have now compared to before? There was a Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. Like not all humans are gonna wanna embrace.

Uh, the amount of AI consultants that I have a feeling are gonna pop up over the

[00:13:50] Jorge Fuentes:

That's a job

[00:13:51] George B. Thomas:

to five years.

[00:13:52] Liz Murphy:

you know what this world means more consultants. Am I right guys? Am I right? No, I think it's just, it, it, we're at a weird point right now where I too have a lot of things I love about it. We all know your girl loves an AI generated poem. We love it. We love a good AI generated poem. I'm gonna have to figure out what we're gonna be doing this afternoon, uh, for hours.

Uh, but. I'm excited. I love that stuff. I love that

[00:14:16] George B. Thomas:

be something with Jorge? Can we leave me alone for one week maybe. Maybe

[00:14:21] Liz Murphy:

you were gonna be left alone. You were gonna be left alone. And what do you do every week, George? You bring it up. You bring it up. So

[00:14:28] Jorge Fuentes:

Well, George is the host, so

[00:14:30] George B. Thomas:

Dang it.

[00:14:31] Liz Murphy:

Yeah. Let's look what you did. Look what you

[00:14:34] George B. Thomas:

That's right.

[00:14:35] Liz Murphy:

you literally.

[00:14:36] George B. Thomas:

That's right.

[00:14:37] Jorge Fuentes:

have the equalizer that

[00:14:39] Liz Murphy:

No, but I love that little sly, like the humans man.

[00:14:42] George B. Thomas:

That's right.

[00:14:43] Liz Murphy:

let's talk to our humans a bit about the concerns though, because I, I love that we're talking about like, let, let's try to be more realistic here. Let's not fear monger, but George, as you know, I sent you a recording of me cradling my dog.

Like going off for 10 minutes about one of my biggest concerns, which I will get to later on, but I'd love to hear from both of you. Let's start with you, George, what your biggest concerns 

[00:15:07] George B. Thomas:

Yeah. Uh, so my biggest concerns are,
And again, nothing changes. Everything's the same. we humans have always been really bad, especially the, the male side of, uh, humans have been really bad about reading the instruction manual. Yeah. We have, or, or getting, stopping to get directions. Man, we're, we're good at not doing that. And so my

[00:15:32] Jorge Fuentes:

that.

[00:15:33] George B. Thomas:

my fear with technology and especially AI, is there's not a large hurdle and there's not even, it's like there's not even really a, a manual yet. Right? Like it's funny as I'm talking about this, I can, I think back to one time when my daughter was super young, uh, this was Madison and I don't even remember what she did, but I remember what I said after she did what she did, I sent her to her room and I asked her what I should do because I explained to her that she didn't come with a manual. My fear is a lot of this AI technology that we're getting doesn't come with a manual. And if it did come with a manual, we're not stopping to read it. And so what fr frustrates me is that we're, we're allowing ourselves to do things that we might look back on and go, Ooh, why? Why did we do that? And I'm not only talking about Liz bad actors.

I'm talking about people that are just uneducated to the fact of what harm they might be doing, even though they think they're doing good. 

[00:16:30] Liz Murphy:

It's like the Jurassic Park rule. Just because you can make the dinosaurs doesn't mean you should make the

[00:16:35] George B. Thomas:

exactly. And so, you know, one of the things that hopefully we'll talk about during this episode is, Does your organization need to create its own AI manual? The dos, the don'ts, the how we will as you move forward? Because if, if, if we just treat this like the wild, wild West and go all willy-nilly, it doesn't end well.

[00:16:56] Liz Murphy:

Let's, let's dig into it right now. What would you say are some of the do's and don'ts? I mean, Let's say it, George, you are a business owner. You should probably have one as well. What are some of the dos and don'ts you are considering?

[00:17:07] George B. Thomas:

Well, I know for sure for me personally, um, AI is definitely not a, I'm gonna put this in, it's gonna push it out and I'm gonna publish it. There are only pieces that I wanna leverage. I don't have a problem with it helping with the ideation process. what are the 17 things that I should talk about, or what are some statistics around this thing?
Or you know, like just bits and pieces. I also don't mind that it would help with the ending of something, meaning I know already that Grammarly is my superhero. I love me some Grammarly, right? And so the idea of being able to, and I've done this by the way, take a transcript from a meeting or take a transcript from a show and run it through something like chat G p t and say, Hey, rewrite this with proper spelling and grammar.
Oh my God. Like I'm down with that. again, so it's, I don't mind little tidbits. I don't mind it helping with the start. I don't mind helping it for cleanup or some light, light, light, light, light. And no, the record is not skipping light editing. I'm making a point for all the

[00:18:19] Jorge Fuentes:

it's pretty light.

[00:18:20] George B. Thomas:

Yeah. Pretty like, but so that's, that's kind of where my brain goes.

But I have straight up seen just like. I am gonna do this prompt that's 27 lines long. It's gonna spit out a finished product and I'm gonna put it on the internet, and I'm like, no.
[00:18:36] Liz Murphy: Oh my gosh. I, you know, it's funny, I, there are things that I love about it, Give me an outline for something that will rank number one for the search turn. Great. Now give me an outline for every single one of those sections. Great. Now give me a little bit of extra whatever I, you know, I'm not ready to go there yet because once I start on this train I'm just gonna ke it.
It is something where I have a very big, big feeling about this. But here is what I will say for right now before I turn to you, Jorge, because I have some ethics questions for you. what gives me a lot of anxiety about this, aside from the big, scary thing I'm gonna get into is the fact that like these tools go out of their way to tell you a couple of things.
Number one, they say in multiple places, especially with chat, G p T, it's a, by the way, did you know this information is like two years old? By the way, did you know some of the stuff we're gonna spit out is harmful? Potentially because we're robots, we don't know any better. Right, so there's that piece of it.

Then there's the other thing that I think. Everybody has forgotten about, but Liz hasn't forgotten about it. Liz forgets nothing. The Google helpful content update, the Google helpful content update, and one of the big things that was emphasized throughout, because normally when they do core algorithm updates, they're like, Guys, don't worry about it.

I know your traffic's cratering, but this is normal. We do this all at that time. But this was one where they went out of their way not to say like, oh, this is just business as usual. They didn't say the sky was falling, but one, there were a few points in there where it, they gave like questions. You should be asking yourself right questions.

You should be asking yourself to understand what your content needs to be at a level in order to rank well. A lot of it had to do with, does this look like stuff that was scraped from the internet? AK agencies or ai, you know, and when I say agencies, by the way, I'm talking to be legal, beleaguered content people where you keep trying to get your subject matter experts on the phone for an interview and they just won't show up.
So you're doing your best if you didn't know. That stuff gets penalized now. So just be careful. But there, there's that kind of stuff, right, where you. You have no idea where this content is coming from. You have no idea it's quality. And not only that, Google literally said in that helpful content update, something to the effect of we're looking for people who are experts in this genuinely, or have a demonstrated enthusiastic passion, right?

Like you don't necessarily have to be the expert at the top of the mountain. You may just be a thoroughly impassioned and enmeshed investigator. Teacher explorer who's creating content about a topic and my brothers and sisters, that is not what AI is going to do for 

[00:21:12] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, I gotta jump in here before you go to Jorge because my brain started screaming out as I was listening to you. Liz, if you're using AI to be an expert, you screwed. Like it is gonna be a bad day, but if you're an expert that can understand that AI just gave you some jacked up stuff and you can fix it, you might be okay.

[00:21:33] Liz Murphy:

Yeah. And speaking of which we, I didn't wanna touch on this during my answer, but there are some definite ethical implications, Jorge, that I want you to speak to because like, let's just give an example. I remember when. AI art started taking over TikTok and reels like crazy. Look at me looking like a priest.

Look at me looking like an astronaut. What does this AI prompt do with this? And then artists started seeing their work. They started even seeing their signature show up in some of the a AI pieces. Like let's get into the ethical piece of this. Jorge and Jorge, before you share your answer, can you give a little background on like why I wanna talk to you explicitly about ethic.

[00:22:14] Jorge Fuentes:

Yeah, sure, sure. I mean, So I do think that ethics in ai. So first of all, if we, are we expecting AI to be ethical? Like if, if they copied like a TikTok from a specific artist, you have their signature on those AI generated videos, like, is that. A bad thing that AI just did, like is it unethical because it did that?
I think we're expecting too much out of it that it may not be able to give us yet it is not an actual person. It is ai. It is learning from what we already have produced in the past. So one thing to me it is that ethics in AI that is definitely a difficult discussion. Like it's this kind of. Eyes, what's it called?

Beauty in the eyes of the beholder type of argument. If, if, if we could say that. So definitely some things that are ethical to use within AI may not be ethical for some, some other people, like I I, for example, I'm not a copywriter. I've never been a copywriter. I, I don't produce great blog articles, so to me, You know, saying I could leverage AI to kind of tweak it a little bit and PO and publish some form of block post or even a social post.
It is like some form of skill, if you will, like that I could gain from ai. Right. So, I, I do think it ties back to, you know, human's natural inclination towards getting, you know, some form of reward with minimal effort, right? Like, like it'd be great if we could all not really have to work and earn a large passive income, et cetera.

Like I, I, I do think there's some of that in some people, right? Like, I, I don't have that maybe, but I would say I don't think I'm ever gonna stop working. But that's probably one thing there, it reminds me kind of like to the crypto craze, you know, which it. Might still be ongoing, but I know, definitely said that it was gonna replace not only, you know, anything from currencies, but actual banks, et cetera.

So, and I'm thinking that that hasn't happened yet in however many years it's been ongoing. So, So, yeah, I mean, it does reminds me that whenever a new trend comes out, whether it be crypto, whether it be ai, everybody's gonna try to jump into the bandwagon and try to like benefit as much as they can from it.

The ones that come first probably get the, the bulk of the, uh, you know, the bag, the money back there, and, um, they took, it's just easy to get in, involved into it. Even as a user or a creator, the barriers to entry are pretty low and, and I mean, there are just. Overall, people are going to always be having some ethical debates on that or how you use it or, or the on the use cases.

And so I think some news just blew. My mind, blow my mind, like, depending on how you view it. Like one thing is that pledge sort of like, uh, not really like a request that the leader leaders in tech made about like pausing AI for about six months. Then the, then one of those leaders just created their own, uh, competitor to chat G p T.

So, and then you also have some news about somebody, some people buying domains for $10 million and. That are gonna be like AI focused types of domains. So yeah, there's just, there's just a debate all around ethics with AI and, yeah. I don't know what you're thinking, George, but that's pretty much my, my take on that. Sure.

[00:25:09] George B. Thomas:

so it's, it's interesting to me because, and Jor, I love what you said there, and it really got my brain going in a, a really weird direction that I don't think I necessarily think of a lot because. I always over-index that we're all coming from a good place. We're all trying to be good humans, but we're not all, we're not all trying to be good humans.

And so I, you know, this, this conversation around ethics, I'm like, well, what I might consider completely unethical, the, the guy or gal next to me might be like, oh, that's completely ethical. Like, I don't see anything wrong with that.

[00:25:40] Liz Murphy:

Will some people consider unethical only something that they get caught doing as long as they're not caught doing something. It's
[00:25:46] George B. Thomas: Yeah, and I'm even going past that if, like, if you're worried about getting caught, trust me, it's not ethical. But then the other piece I go to is there are so many different layers of who we are as humans, right? There's the, there's what I'll call us, the typical people who, you know, make a yearly wage and we come home and we watch Netflix and, and then there's these like other people you know, that are like, The upper echelon, you know, billions of dollars like can actually afford to be programming or have people programming the ai and what do they really want in life?
Like, what's the true goal? Like why has this even been a thing that we've been trying to get to, to, to begin with? Like, it does it come down If you're willing to spend 10 million for a domain, Does it come down that this is a big money play for the people who are trying to line their pockets and, and us, us little folks are just over here fighting about if it's ethical to use it or not.

[00:26:43] Liz Murphy:

Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, think about, uh, I think where it gets really dicey I did, I did have a moment of pause when I started seeing things like being able to predict public opinion. Stock markets, things like that, that because these LA again, these language learning models, Jorge, to your point, these are robots.

They're not sitting here like biting their nails, wondering whether or not they should give a piece of information. It literally just, it follows directions and the smarter the input, the smarter the output. And that's where I think we have some ethical challenges where this is true of. Anything, right?

Like think about some of the cases we're still seeing come up because we're still learning how to regulate social media or the internet or not regulate it. Like there's a lot of confusion and now we are having, we have these models that are able to crunch numbers and ideas at a, at a, at a rate that are completely unimaginable to the human brain.
And there are gonna be implications to that. 
[00:27:44] George B. Thomas: and Liz, it's funny, I love this idea of implications because of Victoria from your. Team, by the way, Volpe, if you haven't checked it out, check it out. But Victoria from your team sent over a TikTok, and it was about this kind of, uh, and I'm gonna generalize it. I'm just gonna generalize it.

[00:28:00] Liz Murphy:

I am sorry. Is the dad of the, is the dad of the podcast going to paraphrase the

[00:28:04] George B. Thomas:

I'm gonna paraphrase it. Yeah. Uh,

[00:28:07] Liz Murphy:

it.

[00:28:07] George B. Thomas:

a doubt. Basically, it's like AI right now has been scraping the internet to be able to provide us the things that it's spitting back out. Now all of us, uh, amazing marketers and business owners are gonna go ahead and use AI to put new stuff on the internet, to which then AI will scrape the internet to give us things to, which then we'll put on the internet.

To which then it'll scrape and then we'll put, think about like the sixth, seventh, eighth cycle of what it's gonna scrape, when it's actually scraping its own information that it provided. Wait, what? Like think about the downward spiral of legitimate information that it will be able to gather due to the medium to bad players who are not act like.

There's just gonna be a thing that we really have to pay attention to here. And so this might be amazing at first, but we quickly could get into year three, year five and be like, yeah, AI is a turd because it's input is garbage. Which by the way, reminds me of my grandpa. in, garbage out.

[00:29:07] Liz Murphy:

Garbage out. Oh yeah. Absolutely. So are we ready? Are we ready for Liz to have her

[00:29:11] George B. Thomas:

Oh man. Yes.

[00:29:12] Liz Murphy:

Okay. It's so bad that I have

[00:29:14] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, buckle up ladies and gentlemen. It's about to get real in here.

[00:29:19] Liz Murphy:

Okay. I have to stand up because this is where we're

[00:29:21] George B. Thomas:

feel like I

[00:29:22] Liz Murphy:

is where

[00:29:22] George B. Thomas:

feel like I need to give you, uh, one of those, like, let's get ready to rumble, like one of those so that you can get going with it. So, and by the way, by the way ladies and gentlemen, you can't see this, but Liz is literally standing up as she pulled her pulpit over and she's about to preach, uh, her thoughts on AI to the hub, heroes, community.

[00:29:42] Jorge Fuentes:

go.

[00:29:42] Liz Murphy:

Okay. All right. All right. I know meanwhile, my dog ham was looking at me like, mom, are you okay? No, I'm not. I'm not. Okay. I will begin this by saying I am a champion of napping. I am a champion of laziness. I am a champion of what can we do to make this easier and faster. However, content, and I've gone off on this before, content is the hilarious little irony that exists within our ecosystem. It is simultaneously the thing that we need the most of, of high quality.
And it is the thing we avoid like the plague. We have built an entire industry around a thing. People actively despise, avoid diminish, denigrate, or just like, oh God, is that a content manager coming to get me for an interview? I better tell her I'm too busy to, and I gotta go do something else. Like, It makes us feel insecure.

We do not like it. We sit down at a computer to write something and even if you are the most seasoned expert in your field, you'll be like, I don't, I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

[00:30:45] George B. Thomas:

Mm

[00:30:46] Liz Murphy:

The problem with some of these tools that I am starting to see, and it's not again, actually, you know what? To Jorge's point, it's not the tool's fault.

It's not the tool's fault, but we have a bunch of human. Who have for so long not understood that by the wake cupcakes, sitting in discomfort is part of the creative process. Sitting and figuring out what your own ideas are takes time. It doesn't always feel good. But when you come out the other side, when you're like, is that the word?

That's not the word. Is that the idea? No, that's not the idea. What is it? And you walk around. You walk outside, you learn how to walk away from your keyboard. You learn how to do all these things. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is where real thought leadership is born,

[00:31:27] George B. Thomas:

Yes, yes.

[00:31:29] Liz Murphy:

And so here's where I start getting really anxious. I'm seeing so many people create prompts that completely nuke that process. They are creating things where it's like, well, tell me what the outline is now, tell me what the outline of each section is. Tell me what the thing is supposed to be, and you may end up with something that is adjacent to something brilliant that is adjacent to genuine thought leadership.

I've been seeing some of these tos recently where it's like I asked TikTok. To write the first sentence of my book based on the plot, and they were fine. You're like, you know, it was a stormy Tuesday evening and the blah, blah, blah, and then they would actually read what the real introduction was, and it was mind blowing.

What it does is it creates something that's serviceable in many cases, very good, but my fear is that we are a society that is increasingly trying to make. Things easier, and I'm all about things like, look, I got clear. I got TSA precheck, I'd wanna buy my time back. Right? But if you are here to make a difference for the humans that you serve, Through your thoughts, through your education, through your service, you have to be extremely careful how much you are turning to these tools to remove a pain that you think is bad.

That is indicative of your failure. Indicative of, oh my gosh, do I actually know what I'm doing? Do I actually know what I wanna say? Do I act? Yes, you do, but you have to sit with your feeling. You have to learn to brainstorm, to walk away from your keyboard, to throw stuff out there. To be like the guy at the club who knows that asking to get a girl's number is all about the at bats.

Not everything is going to be Hemingway. You know, Jorge, I love that you, bro, you perked up to that. You're like, what? Yeah, so that, okay, I'm going to sit down now, but like this is my big fear. I see, I see. I saw every day in my job before AI showed up. Right? People who would sit down and say, I just genuinely don't think I have anything interesting to say.
People who have been in their field of expertise for years, decades, and it's just because they haven't been taught what the creative process is like. And it hurts. It hurts sometimes. But the act of creating something from nothing is an inherently vulnerable act. And if you are here to make a difference, if you're here to be a thought leader and not just put it in your social media bio, you have to build that into your process and understand it is not a, it is not a bug, it is a feature.

[00:33:56] George B. Thomas:

So Liz, it's interesting, because there was a part in there, which by the way, I love everything that you just said, and I feel like that needs to be like a clip and just go out on the internet for people to hear because there's so much truth in it.

There was a part in there that you used a word, and I could, I could literally feel myself go like, you were like, it. It's, it's, it's, it was good and I immediately went to this thing. Why are people okay with good? Why are we not challenging ourselves to be great? Why are we not challenging our content to be great?

Like, it's not about sh just shipping it, It's about shipping something that's special. And, and the, the whole funny thing as you were kind of going, I was like, oh man, I wanted to close out with something. Kind of like what Liz is going at that is a less brown quote where he talks about do what is easy in your life. will be hard. Do what is hard in your life will become easy. It's through the process. It's through the challenges that we actually mold ourself, mold our content, mold our creativity into the thing that becomes this amazing thing. And I, you know, I go into this, this again, knowing that not all humans are good actors, lazy people will be LA will do lazy things.

Smart people usually do smart things, and my biggest worry and my, my challenge to people who are listening to this is, please don't be a smart person that allows AI to turn you lazy.
[00:35:26] Liz Murphy: Oh, I completely agree with that. I like, like I said, you know, there is. There is a big difference between buying your time back so you can spend it on more valuable things. I e like clear TSA precheck. Your girl does not like taking off her shoes, standing in lines, it also makes the traveling experience so much easier for me. Right. But then I also think about, for example, a few years ago I wrote an article while I was still at Impact about the fact that Forbes was actually using a custom-built AI platform. That would give their writers really ugly first drafts, right? Like it would just give them the mound of clay. And what it would do is it would help solve for the blank document syndrome, but it basically allowed those writers to immediately go in and start doing more of their high impact work, right?
So what I think people really need to realize is that you should absolutely, absolutely be using AI to shore up parts of your processes, right? Make things that take a long time, a much shorter amount of time, create those outlines, do those different things.

But don't let it take the whole process. You should be targeting the use of it toward tasks that are low impact, so you can spend more time in your zone of genius, your high impact areas, or more time to disparity keyboard and go, those are not the right words. I know the right words. They're in there, but they, that's not it yet. And then you go outside and touch grass for a little bit and then it's fine.

[00:36:51] Jorge Fuentes:

Yeah, I, I think, uh, so two things basically. So on the first side, I don't think either AI machine learning, crypto web three, I don't think anything's gonna replace the. Put in the effort factor to success. So that's really whether we get AI to do absolutely everything, to automate my tasks, to automate like, uh, creating, uh, an nav, whatever it is.

I do think there's always gonna be naturally, You know this, this factor of you gotta put in the work, you gotta put in the effort and that's how you're gonna get actually rewarded. That's how you're gonna advance through life, through, through work, through business, whichever. So overall, I know there's this great debate and I don't think we've even touched the surface of it, but definitely I wouldn't, I would go as far as saying yes, don't.

Be a smart person that allows AI to turn yourself into a lazy person, as George said. But I do think that whoever does that, in the end, you know, there will be someone who's maybe lazy, but now, you know, opens their eyes and is like, I'm not gonna let ai, you know, push me towards staying where I am, and I'm just gonna leverage it to advance even further.

And I think that's, that's actually gonna. You know, always be a factor. I don't think any tool or any technology or any, you know, new innovation is actually gonna replace that. So, yeah, I mean that's pretty much my, my thought there

[00:38:12] Liz Murphy:

George, I want us to take a moment here because I think we spent a long time talking about the laziness factor, right? And I'm in agreement with all of you, but I'd love for us to take a moment to pivot this conversation. Because I know you've been up close and personal with some of the new tools that are available to hubs, spotters, and inbounds.
Talk to us about what's going on there. So let's, let's, let's just make the assumption right now that the humans who are listening to us fall into that, okay? Maybe I like to nap a little bit too much. Sometimes crowd, right? But like for the most part, these are good humans here to do good work. What's at their disposal at the

[00:38:46] George B. Thomas:

Yeah. There's two main things that, and by the way, this will tie into, so what. You know, what do I think the audience should start doing? Cuz I can't believe we're already at like 45 minutes and we've been having a whole lot of fun here. But like, what should the audience do right now? One of the things I wanted to talk about was play with it, test it.
And so when you bring this up, HubSpot, um, when you bring this up, Liz, oh my gosh,

[00:39:10] Liz Murphy:

Did you just call me HubSpot?

[00:39:12] George B. Thomas:

people, I'm telling you. Um, but when you bring this up, uh, Liz, immediately, two things come to mind. One is HubSpot Content Assistant. and we'll put a link in the show notes. But basically this, uh, assistant lives inside a HubSpot.

And so if you want to get blog IDs, if you want to create blog outlines, if you want to generate paragraphs, create marketing emails, amplify your ideas. That's the one I love by the way. Amplify your ideas or bright prospecting emails, right? Or get the start of them. again, you can go ahead and go to the link that we'll have in the show notes.
Uh, you could Google it as well if you want. It's still left to you. but it is, uh, a set of new AI tools. The second one, by the way, Is chat, uh, spot and that is Dar me's I think new brainchild that he is having so much fun with. But it's, um, chat spott equals chat, g p t plus the power of HubSpot CR M.

And there's a little subline here. No more waiting head directly to go and start chatting and literally you can go to chats spot.ai. and there's a little video there. You can watch it, it kind of explains what you can do. But if you've ever wished there was like, you know, create a form and HubSpot for me or do this thing, or what about this thing? it's, yeah, it is. It is. Here's what's funny, right? It, these two tools take what, uh, a couple months ago or weeks ago actually, you had to go to a different website, do a thing, come back into the tool that you're using for sales and marketing enablement, or marketing automation or content creation. And now these tools are just starting to be like right there.

Inside the system that we live in every day. So definitely, if you haven't yet, check out HubSpot Content Assistant and definitely check out Chats Spott.

[00:41:01] Liz Murphy:

So before we head out today, I would love to hear from you all. What is one thing someone listening in our audience right now should either start, stop, or keep doing?

[00:41:15] Jorge Fuentes:

I would say, uh, pretty much, you know, Maybe we need to stop watching so much ai, news, so to speak, or read, you know, so, so many news about AI and everything that's going around it. I do feel that the overall. You know, feeling around AI might be a little of, uh, you know, fear around it, maybe some negativity regarding how it is gonna be used.
Ethics, definitely it's a debate and if we stop focusing, maybe on the negatives and just on the positives, I do think that we can actually advance further that technology and the use cases of it for our benefit. So that's one thing that we could stop and or try start doing. And one thing to keep doing, you know, I guess we can, I could say we should just keep doing what we're doing.

Like we should just keep going. Uh, I don't think there's any, you know, doom around ai. Definitely. I don't think it's going to end humanity. Yes. You know, maybe what Goldman Sachs said about 300 million jobs being lost, you know, that doesn't mean 300 million people are gonna be unable to Absolutely do.

Anything, like they're just gonna be, work kind of, uh, handicaps, so to speak. Like they won't be employable anywhere. And that's actually not true. I do think that they will find their way somehow. Some will start, maybe some businesses, some will get into other areas or their fields. I just don't think AI is ever gonna, you know, take the trash out, the garbage in, garbage out.

So, I'm just, uh, yeah, I'm just a believer in humanity overall. I don't think that that's, that it's gonna be something that we're gonna use to, you know, I would say like sabotage ourselves. So, yeah. I, I mean, I think we may, we may be even doing that every day, but I do think things are gonna keep going. So, I don't know what you're thinking, George, but, that's pretty much my, my tips there and what I have to say for that.
Sure.

[00:42:58] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, I love, uh, I love that. And I'm gonna go back to Liz, the very, very beginning of this episode where you talked about a tadpole and what is it gonna be? Is it gonna be human, is it gonna be alien? Is it gonna be a frog? and my, I have two things I want to say. So my tip around the, tadpole. is you need to educate yourself on it because for you it might be a human, for somebody else, it might be a frog. For another person, it might be an alien. A AI is gonna be what you make it. you have the power to use it in the way that you wanna use it. But to do that, you have to educate yourself on it.

So definitely make sure. You check out Marketing AI institute, uh, dot com. That's our friend, Paul Roadster. Uh, and some other folks have put that together. Also, I did a, a, a great interview on the Marketing Smarts podcast with Christopher Penn, who is one of the most ingenious humans I think I've ever met in my life. And he talks about how to use AI for marketing in the future. really great conversation. So educate yourself around it and figure out what is your tadpole, what is your AI right now? Gonna turn into in your organization. And then the last thing I'll say to this that I want people to start doing or always do, is I want you to think about, always the last thought in your mind is the icing on the cake.

So you can use AI to like get you an egg, to get you the flour, to get you the, the chocolate you need. But you should be mixing it up. You should be mixing it up and baking the cake. And then the last thing you do and the icing on the cake is I want you to ask yourself, now, now that I got this cake, do I make it me?
How do I make it sound like me? Look like me, like how do I put my thought leadership on this? That's you, you the human are the icing on the cake of whatever you use AI to build as you move forward. That's my thoughts on this.

[00:44:50] Liz Murphy:

Are you ready for mine?

[00:44:52] George B. Thomas:

Oh, yes, it's, it's some sort of limb. Ricker Palmer.

[00:44:56] Jorge Fuentes:

think

[00:44:57] Liz Murphy:

everyone should start using chat g v T to make more poems cuz it's super fun. Would you like an example? I'm so glad you asked George. I bet you're the most

[00:45:06] George B. Thomas:

I'm so excited right now.

[00:45:07] Liz Murphy:

and as a reminder for everything we've already discussed, I have no control over the robots. They are neither ethical nor unethical, right?

Yeah. Okay. In the, it is what we just see. Jorge, I listened, I learned, I took note. In the African Savannah lived a giraffe so tall. His name was George, but he was mean to all. He'd poke and prod and tease and taunt. The other giraffes would often feel daunt. One day Jorge appeared with a cape and a sword.
He was determined to save the giraffes that were ignored. George left at Jorge saying, what can you do? I'm bigger and stronger. You are just a kangaroo. But Jorge didn't give up. He hopped and he hopped. He knocked George down, and all the giraffes popped from that day on. George wasn't so mean, and the giraffes were grateful to Jorge, their new king.

So if you ever see a bully, just remember this tale. There's always someone out there who can help you prevail.

[00:46:05] George B. Thomas:

Wow. Yep. We'll just end it with that. My goodness. Where do we go from there? Nowhere. That's

[00:46:11] Liz Murphy:

I don't know, George, are you all right bud? I didn't realize he was gonna literally turn you into a giraffe and a bully, but you know, like what? But you know what, let's ride with it. But with that, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for listening this week. As always, we'd love to get a review from you, or ideas of any other topics you'd like for us to cover. and robots out there listening, don't worry. We, we all worship and love our Skynet overlords. Thank you and beep boop to you

[00:46:40] George B. Thomas:

Beep. Boo

[00:46:41] Liz Murphy:

week.

[00:46:42] George B. Thomas:

beep boo.