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2 min read

How to set big goals you'll actually keep in 2023 (HubHeroes, Ep. 19)

How a topic cluster content strategy really works (HubHeroes, Ep. 18)

Buckle up, folks! This is an intense episode that everyone needs to listen to, but I mean that in the best way possible.

You see, the last couple of months of the year are a bit strange. We start winding down as humans and in our professional lives. We make jokes like, "That sounds like a problem for January George!" as we kick projects and tasks to the new year. 

🔎 Related: Change, discomfort, and breakthrough moments (HubHeroes Podcast)

We hyper-focus on goal-setting and resolutions, and we look ahead to January with promise and excitement for a fresh start. There's just a few problems with this approach that seemingly crop up year after year:

  • As soon as we are back at the office or at work, we already feel behind. We're setting goals for months that have already started.
  • We also have to play catch up by taking care of all of the little tasks we left for the January versions of ourselves. 
  • We set resolutions for the sake of it, knowing full well it won't take long for us to totally fall off the wagon ... but hey, we're going to try this year, right?
  • Or, we're totally on board with goal-setting and resolutions, but we don't realize how we're mentally undercutting our ability to succeed with our goals — both in mindset and in the goals we choose to chase. 

And this annual emotional rollercoaster of limitless motivation, complete overwhelm, and sinking disappointment is why we're taking a break from HubSpot this week.

Instead, we're talking about how we humans — no matter what roles we play within our organizations or at home — approach goal-setting at New Year's (and all year round!) ... as well as how you're likely getting in your own way on your pathway to success.

By the way, I told you to buckle up at the start of this for a reason. Liz and I dig deep, get personal about our failures and triumphs, and dish out a little tough love. It's an episode you won't want to miss! 

Here's what we cover in this episode ...

  • Why do most of us fail with our goals?
  • What are the flawed ways in which we approach goal-setting?
  • What are the conscious and subconscious ways we sabotage ourselves?
  • What does great goal-setting look like?
  • How do you wrestle with the two Fs — focus and fear — the two killers of success?
  • Are SMART goals actually very smart or very stupid?

And, honestly, that's only the beginning ... 


We actually broke our own rules this week and didn't synthesize our advice into a "one thing." Shame on us, right? Instead, Liz and I opened up and shared our own personal goals about what we're looking to achieve in 2023.

So, with that in mind, here's what I will say — be honest when take stock of how you may be standing in your own way after you listen to this episode. That's where your true journey to success begins.


HubSpot Implementation with George B Thomas

(We've made it easy!)

Whatever you're doing right now, stop. How effective you are at achieving your goals next year (personal or professional) will depend on you listening to this episode. 

Let's just say, Liz and I don't hold back:

#goalsetting #goalmindset #growthmindset

You can't go into 2023 without listening to this episode. (Or at least to January 3.) Your 2023 depends on it.

In this episode, Liz and I take you on a no-bs journey through the New Year's Overwhelm that plague us all and get real about what it takes to set goals you actually achieve:

#goalsetting #goals #growthmindset #newyearsresolutions #2023goals

Do you know how you're sabotaging your ability to achieve your goals? Do you know the subconscious ways in which you are making it impossible to see the success you're looking for?

Before you answer, listen to this...

#goalsetting #personalgrowth #growthmindset #newyearsresolutions #fear

"That sounds like a problem for January [YOUR NAME HERE!]"

How many times did you say that over the past 45-60 days? Don't feel any shame! I did it, too! But now 2023 is right around the corner ... and so is the New Year's Overwhelm.

Learn how to combat it here:

#stressmanagement #goalsetting #growthmindset #2023goals

Why your sales enablement strategy is failing (HubHeroes, Ep. 22)

2 min read

Why your sales enablement strategy is failing (HubHeroes, Ep. 22)

We've gotta be honest with ourselves here, folks.

As much as many of us like to talk a big game about sales enablement strategy, that's pretty much...

Read More
What is HubSpot Operations Hub? Feat. Nick Carbone (HubHeroes, Ep. 21)

2 min read

What is HubSpot Operations Hub? Feat. Nick Carbone (HubHeroes, Ep. 21)

When bright orange sprocket rolled out the HubSpot Operations Hub in 2021, they did so while underscoring one of the most common challenges that...

Read More
What is the HubSpot Flywheel? Is the funnel dead? (HubHeroes, Ep. 20)

2 min read

What is the HubSpot Flywheel? Is the funnel dead? (HubHeroes, Ep. 20)

One sunny September morning in 2018, thousands of inbounders and HubSpotters were gathered in Boston watching HubSpot cofounder Brian Halligan's...

Read More

Meet your HubHeroes

Liz Murphy


Agency vet, content therapist, messaging strategist, HubHero wrangler.

Devyn Bellamy


HubSpotter, partner enabler, strategy wizard, BLACK@INBOUND.

Max Cohen


HubSpotter, senior solutions engineer, CRM evangelist, a millennial on TikTok.

George B. Thomas


HubHeroes leader, growth catalyst, guardian of humans, HubSpot expert.

[00:00:00] Liz Murphy: 

Welcome back to the Hub Heroes Podcast. I am Liz Murphy, your official hub, heroes Wrangler and content strategy nerd, and with me today. As always, George B. Thomas HubSpot helper, catalyst for growth.

[00:00:12] George B. Thomas: 

Yes. Yes. I love growth. You know what else? I love Liz. I love coming out of a desert. And this episode is actually the coming out of the desert episode because I do believe next week we will have other people with us. Max will be back. Devin might be back, we might have guests happening, all sorts of fun stuff.

But it, it has been the season, tis the season Christmas, new Year's which for some sense of strangeness has been a little bit of a desert, where the listeners, although they've gotten value, have only been able to only, been able to listen to you and I. Now moving forward, we're gonna go back to our normal scheduled program.

[00:00:51] Liz Murphy: 

And me being a woman, I'm just gonna take the fact that you called me a desert personally and that's fine.

[00:00:57] George B. Thomas:

 that's not exactly what I meant,

[00:00:59] Liz Murphy:

 I am going to remember that when I decide not to throw softballs at you later this afternoon during our conversation today. Yeah, no, that's right. you already let the cat outta the bag.

We are in the nether world, the weird in between liminal space between Christmas and New Year's where everybody is simultaneously the calmest they have ever been because they have.

Zero sense of space and time and also probably the most stress they've ever been. But before we dig into our conversation today, I'd like to ask you, have you actually been able to take any time off?

This is, you and I were talking about this earlier today, about making the point to take time off when you own your own business and how we've both challenge been challenged with 

[00:01:37] George B. Thomas:

 Yeah it's funny, the short answer, Liz, is yes, I have been able to take some time off. However, there's a longer answer to that shorter answer in that when I was an employee, man, did I love the fact that we could get like this extended amount of time off in between Christmas and New Year's. Now, what's funny, as an owner of my own company, that time scares the bejesus outta me, and I can get into why that is.

But that slow down time it scares me from a couple different angles. But I have again, taken care of myself, taken care of family, and have taken some time

[00:02:14] Liz Murphy: 

Yeah, me too. I was telling you earlier, and I'll just share with the your girl Liz went wild. She went to home Goods and bought laundry baskets and utensils, and that's how Liz got some downtime. Finally.

[00:02:27] George B. Thomas: 

That is hilarious.

[00:02:28] Liz Murphy: I know, I know. I'm super crazy. I haven't changed much since the 24 year old who made a lot of, let's just call 'em decisions while living in Fort Lauderdale, but that's another episode.

So today, I already alluded to this. It is a weird week. It is a weird time of year because we spend part of November, like as soon as we get after Halloween, right? we free fall right into Thanksgiving if you celebrate, and then we start heading toward the holidays and everything's on a wind down.

And we all start making jokes like, huh, that sounds like a problem for January, Liz. And then we kick the can down the robe, and then January gets here, and as we're sitting in this week, we're sitting here making resolutions. We are thinking about goals. We're looking ahead to this new chapter and this new leaf and there's just one tiny problem.

When everybody gets back to work, it all goes completely out the window because you have two things that are happening at the same time. You are setting goals for a new year that has already started.

[00:03:29] George B. Thomas:

 Yeah. Day late dollar short. Oops.

[00:03:31] Liz Murphy: 

And then you're also dealing with all of the little presents. You left yourself for January, Liz for January, Jordan, and you're like, December.

Liz was an asshole, and I do not like her at all. 

[00:03:45] George B. Thomas: 

That's the thing. You hate yourself and any time that you can set yourself up for success is a good thing. But the idea of winding down and the holidays and not loving yourself enough for January, Liz, January. Bobby, January. Chris, January, Rob, whoever to say, oh. November, December, Liz was freaking rockstar.

Ain't what's happening right now. Liz

[00:04:11] Liz Murphy: 

  1. Liz is having a mild existential crisis sometimes when she looks in the mirror, but that's why I wanted to have this conversation with you today. I'm going to pretend it's really to help our audience, but really I am the audience.

[00:04:22] George B. Thomas: 

Ah, there you go.

[00:04:23] Liz Murphy:

 Hi. It's me. I'm the problem. Hi, it's me. No. No. I wanted us to have a conversation today about goal setting and diffusing this New Year's overwhelm, not just because I want advice, but you and I have already been touching on some conversations about this over the past two weeks, and you started saying super duper smart things.

I'm like, please zip it. We obviously need to record this. So that's what we're talking about today, the flawed approach with which people take personal and professional goal setting on behalf of themselves or their companies or their teams, and also diffusing and taking it down a notch with this overwhelm we feel once we get back.

[00:04:58] George B. Thomas:

 I can't wait for this conversation. The funny thing is it's like a Grand Canyon. You're gonna have people who are listening to this who are like, I don't need no stinking gulls. Goals are for chomps. And then you're gonna have the other side of this that people like myself who are like super goal oriented.

We live, eat, drink, breathe by our goals, but are also like me for many years jacking that whole goal system up, really bad. And then there's other people who might be listening to and be like, yep, I'm good. I don't even know why I'm gonna listen, other than George and Liz are funny. So I'm gonna listen to the rest of this podcast cuz I am the goal king or queen tho.

Those are the people that I think we're talking to and I think everybody actually has something to learn through this episode.

[00:05:39] Liz Murphy: 

Oh yeah, absolutely. Because I think there's also something to be said for the Inbetweenie people, and I almost think you're an inbetweenie person, George, because you said something earlier this week that really clicked. It made my brain go, wait, what? You said I don't like goals. I'm like, I'm sorry.

Hold on a second. So why don't we start there? , what don't you like about goals? Because you just sat there and said You're a hungry, goal-oriented machine. And the reason why I went, huh, like a confused corgi was because you and I talk about your goals all the time, and so that was like a very confusing thing for me.

So let's start there. Let's talk about what's the problem with goal setting in your eyes.

[00:06:15] George B. Thomas: 

yeah. I've had a love hate relationship, right? I've loved goals. I've hated goals. I've loved to hate my goals but it's because I've had to tweak or turn it into something that works for me. And that end there is the first problem they want to talk about. When everybody hears the word goals or when most people hear the word goals, it is this very static.

It has to be that thing. This is what everybody teaches. This is what they say. Oh. And if I make it an extra smart goal, because it's specific, measurable, attainable, like there's, everybody tries to put a blueprint to what a goal is. Everybody treats it as a singular, static thing. And so it lacks the ability to be nimble, pivot, transition.

So the biggest thing is just the way that people inherently think about goals. That is a problem. The other thing that I'm gonna add in here is that people will. Some people, if you're like me, , you've done this, you will not wait to get to your goal before you create an additional goal.

Therefore, you never really arrive at a place of success joy or even being able to measure truly the impact and everything around the goal because now all of a sudden we're back off on like leg two of what shouldn't be leg two, but should be race number two. Anyway, so those are some things that really frustrate me historically about goals.

[00:07:45] Liz Murphy: 

You said something there about people getting really hung up, like it's gotta be a smart goal. Now, to be fair, I think there is something to be said for the fact that sometimes there is a goal and then there. Fluffy nonsense. That makes no sense. And I think the specific, measurable, attainable, time bound, all that stuff, I think that is helpful.

But I will say there is a part of me that agrees with you because I told you, I've told you about this, I didn't experiment earlier this year where for four months, every single day I took 15 minutes at every morning, which is amazing cuz I literally never keep any habits. But I was gonna challenge myself to do I had two sets of goals. I wrote out every single day I had four, five year goals that I wanted to attain. And then for each of those goals, I had something I was gonna do that day to move that goal forward. Your agility piece is absolutely correct because I was convinced. The, I had the right goals right out of the gate.

I was convinced that for four months I was gonna be writing down the same five year plan with the same types of goals most of the day. And they were all specific. Specific, Jesus specific, measurable, attainable, all that good stuff, right? It took me a month to realize I had set the wrong goals, and I realized that part of the process for me is that you have to learn what good goals even look like.

And then, like you said, be willing to pivot. I also had to sit with some goals for a while to realize I'm really glad I set this goal cuz now I realize I don't want it. Or am I going after the wrong thing? And so I think you brought up a really good point there, George, is that, and I wanna split the baby here a little bit.

I think it is important to be specific in all of those different things about your goals. But the agility piece is so important. You have to get good at creating goals, and I think a lot of people are just like I set a goal, I did it. And they don't ever stop to question whether or not the goal was even valid in the first place.

[00:09:41] George B. Thomas:

 So there's so much in there that I wanna unpack on what you said, and I agree with the fact that, yes, it does have to be a smart goal. It should be specific, it should be measurable, it should be attainable. I, I'm somewhat jesting at the amount of times that I've heard HubSpot Academy say, start with a smart goal.

So I do agree with all that. Now, here's the thing. You dropped little nugget bombs along the way. One is you said the word habit, and that's the thing. If you create a goal and don't have habits daily, weekly, monthly, that align with that goal, you are woefully inadequate to reach where you were trying to go.

By the way, if you have made a goal without habits, you've actually set a New Year's resolution that you won't follow anyway, that ties back to another piece of content that you can go check out on the website. But here's the thing. You also mentioned past habits, the fact that you were documenting and I would challenge anybody listening to this podcast, if you don't have your goals and you're tracking them in a notebook, on a whiteboard, on a wall with crayons on the sidewalk with Chuck, I don't care how, but if you are not documenting and tracking and looking at on a daily basis, your journey to that goal you will get lost along the way.

[00:11:00] Liz Murphy: That is it. Okay, first of all, that reminds me of something, a very dear friend of mine. She's the head of web at Media Junction, Jesse Lee Nichols always said if a process isn't documented, it's not a process, and if your goal isn't documented, it's not a goal. It's a wish.

[00:11:13] George B. Thomas: 

Without a doubt. So that, a couple things people can take away, right? I got a ced. It has to be an intelligent goal. I have to be limber with that goal to make sure it's truly where I want to go. Once I head out on the journey, it's like figuring out that you are heading to Starbucks, but along the way, there was a Dunking Donut special Buy one get one free.

I'm navigating to the buy one, get one free. I'm just gonna throw that out there. So having that flexibility, forming the habits, the gps around where you're trying to go and documenting along the way. So for instance, as a business owner, you gotta get an app that tracks your mileage when you're on business trips.

So you can write that junk off, right? So like it's all of these little micro pieces that you can start to put together that will set you up for future success. Then again, we go back to the thing of, and what happens when you get there, but we'll get to 

[00:12:03] Liz Murphy: 

So I wanna talk to you about something that you alluded to when we first started this discussion, which is this idea of goal setting, but you're looking in the rear view mirror with the wrong lens, with the wrong perspective. Can you talk to me about that and what that means?

[00:12:19] George B. Thomas:

 And I don't even know if it's the wrong lens or the wrong perspective for 90% of the people that might be like me. And that is you're chasing goals and you don't ever actually turn around and look back. You don't, whether it be in your rear view mirror, which things may look larger than they actually are or whatever, right?

Or you're actually stopping and physically pivoting mentally back to look at where you were and where you are now, and judge it and look at where you wanna go. I literally, on my whiteboard, Liz, not everybody knows this, I share this with a few people who are close to me. I have on my whiteboard in my office, I walk in on a daily basis, in and out and on the whiteboard that I can see when I'm walking in and out.

It literally says you've come a long way since 2013. And actually the funny thing is a ex-boss from back when I was a, an employee was like, dude, I need you to, I need you to write that down. I wrote it down and it stayed there because it's so impactful to remind me, Hey, you've gotta stop, you've gotta have that success moment.

Or at least a breather. Imagine if you were trying to climb Everest and you didn't have four points along the way, you're gonna die. And many of us have put out sales, marketing, or company goals, and we don't have rest points to look at the journey we've made. And guess what? You're, I mean, you're not gonna die.

It, it's not that deep, but it's gonna get stressful. It's gonna be hard to keep going. you have to stop, you have to look backwards, whether, if that's in a rear view mirror or literally just stopping long enough. to get your feet under you and figure out where you should go next.

[00:13:52] Liz Murphy: 

I'm having a bit of a moment and it's funny I sometimes wish people, or maybe it's good that they don't, cause you and I always have a bunch of pretty deep life conversations. You and I walked a s a similar al albeit staggered entrepreneurial path over the course of this year with both of us going out on our own.

And I talked to you earlier this week about how I was really struggling. I, prior to going off on my own I was crazy busy. Lots of stuff going on, was working at an agency. And I was really looking forward to going out on my own. But I also had the structure to create the time for myself, And I had an on and an off switch. And this past week has been exceptionally painful for me because every time I felt like stepping away, I thought I was doing something wrong, that I I was criminalizing downtime. And so the funny thing is that I'm, as I'm looking toward this year, I think a lot of times when people create goals, they get so focused on output and they don't realize that balance is a verb.

A f a dear friend of mine, Allison Loftus, taught me that balance is a verb and I'm looking ahead and I'm really being more holistic about my goals, right? I wanna show up and I have revenue goals, I have goals with my clients, I have all of these different things that I'm doing, but none of that matters if I don't counterbalance that with the human piece of it.

And I think that's another thing that people often get wrong. They get so hyper-focused on the revenue, the KPIs, the whatever, that they don't balance that out with some sort of, so when are you gonna turn your brain off chief? When are you gonna sit down and journal? When are you gonna do your thing?

[00:15:28] George B. Thomas:

 It. It's so funny, Liz, because when I hear you say that, two things come to my brain. Number one is this. If I chose to drive from Charlotte, North Carolina to, let's just say White Hall Montana, that was my goal, and I got in my car and I just started driving. Do you know how far I would get? I would get as

[00:15:50] Liz Murphy: 

gas runs out,

[00:15:51] George B. Thomas: 

as my gas runs out because in that goal, I didn't plan to stop at a gas station, or I didn't stop to plan to go to the bathroom, or I didn't stop the plan to go eat, I wasn't paying attention to the micros. I just said, I gotta go. I'm gonna hop in the car. I'm gonna drive to White Hall Montana. I'm not making it because we need those rest areas. There are rest areas along the road of life for a reason The second part of this that I think is terrible because I too have, let's just use the word use criminalized this ability to take time for myself.

And I've battled profusely against this and what I've figured out and I've learned, and I think that historically, many of us humans are bad at this. To not do that, you have to have the ability to give yourself grace.

[00:16:46] Liz Murphy: 

What does that look like? You know what I'm gonna push you here for a second and I know you've got an answer to back it up. I'm not saying you are wrong. What I'm saying is give yourself grace is something I see a lot on Instagram posts, and I apologize on behalf of white Wman everywhere for ruining that phrase because that's what's happened on Instagram, A bunch of women and felt hats.

Shilling coaching courses are, it's all about giving grace, but honestly, as someone who works a lot and is in this industry, pardon in my French, but what the flippity flip does that mean and what does that actually look like in practice? Give me examples.

[00:17:19] George B. Thomas: 

Yeah. So here's the thing. I mentally have to go through a process, George. You have been owning a business for six months. You have been doing eight to 10 hour days. Some weekends, you've been working a couple hours a weekend. Yes. You gave yourself the freedom, the ability, the grace to take some downtime, and you've even gone on two vacations in the last six months, which is amazing.

However, I got to this week, and by the way, those vacations were easy. I got to this week and I had a whole turmoil of things going around in my brain about, oh, this agency is closed for the entire week. That agency is closed for the entire week. Many of my clients. Are closed for the entire week. So talk about quiet.

Like my inbox is the most quiet this week. It has been, but that's joyous because what that means is no meetings, no inbox to wrangle means I actually have time to work and get caught up or get ahead. Here's the problem. I sit there and I'm frustrated because I want to take some time, but I'm like, no, I should be working.

This is the opportune time to be working. And so what I have to do is go through that process and be like, Hey, big dummy, you have been laying it on the line for six months, an eight hour period of going and doing lunch with your wife, going to IKEA and doing some shopping, cleaning your office, whatever. it is not going to kill you. You have to this is gonna be hard for people to hear. You have to let go. So when I say give grace, I mean you have to let go of the reigns for a hot minute. You've gotta let go of being a control freak in everything for your business and your marketing and your sales for a minute.

And you just have to, I know, but you have to just, it'll be okay. Like I literally posted on social, by the way. I was gonna work on Christmas Eve,

[00:19:23] Liz Murphy: 

You did the LinkedIn

[00:19:24] George B. Thomas:

 of thing, but guess what? I went ahead and realized Monday you'll be. In no time flat, so you have to find those F times and I think a lot of this too, when I say grace, freedom, I also think there's a level of this that is self-awareness.

I need this more than I need that. And definitely more than they need these things.

[00:19:46] Liz Murphy:

So the control freak in me, you saw me going through I think I went through the five stages of grief when you told me I had to let go. This isn't frozen, I'm not doing it. You can't make me. But also accurate. I feel so seen and heard and understood because that's exactly how I felt this week.

It was just like, who do I get to play with? It's George. That's it. There's no one else around. And it was so weird. It was so quiet that for one moment I was like, is everyone mad at me? Why is no one saying anything? Hello? I felt like an insane person, but here is what I wanna get to, right?

We're sitting here and we're talking about the flawed ideas around. Goal setting, right? Where this sense of overwhelm comes from. And it sounds like a lot of it is self-inflicted. Like we do actually all have things to do. December, Liz, let's be honest, is and will be considered an assholes historically from now and forever.

But I'm also an asshole all times of the year, so that's really not new.

But let's dig

[00:20:47] George B. Thomas:

 really. Not really. It's fun to say on a podcast, but No, you're not really. And also, I have to do a ding. This might be the most a-hole using episode that we've ever had thus far. Just

[00:20:58] Liz Murphy: 

Welcome to the desert. Welcome to the desert. No, but I would love for us to talk a little bit about what are the other ways in which we are harming ourselves, because we're gonna talk about how you actually set good goals, what that actually looks like. But I think before we can even do that, we need to accept.

we are the problem and we are inflicting wounds. So we've talked about giving ourselves grace. We've talked about do we even understand what good goals look like? What are some of the other self-inflicted wounds where it's let's remove the pain first before we add new processes in.

[00:21:32] George B. Thomas: 

yeah. It's funny when you ask me that question, my brain goes in two different directions, Liz.

[00:21:37] Liz Murphy: 

Of course it does.

[00:21:38] George B. Thomas: 

it always does. It's literally gonna be a t-shirt. Ladies and gentlemen, if you want a t-shirt that says Hub Heroes, my brain is going in two different directions. You just hit me up on social, let me know, cuz I think it should be a t-shirt.

But here's the thing. , and I'm not saying that the listeners have a bad relationship with this or these things or they have a good, I don't know cuz I don't know all the listeners that are listening, but there are two things that have fundamentally helped me kick goals in the butt. And that is a healthy relationship with focus and a healthy relationship with.

[00:22:11] Liz Murphy: 

my two favorite F's.

[00:22:13] George B. Thomas: 

Yeah. Yeah. So here's the thing. A lot of people have a relationship when they hear the word focus, that it does mean singularity. One thing. That's all we can focus on. I have this mindset of focus simply means that I have to divide the focus on what might be the most important two things or three things.

Again, in an article that went out earlier that talks about forks, right? And focusing on the forks in life and spiritually, mentally, physically, personally, professionally. And if you can think about how can you take this brain, this bucket of focus, how can you stop long enough to figure out, here are the two or three things for this time period that help me get to this goal.

Which by the way, I'll break that down even further in a little bit. Now all of a sudden, you can be moving. Micros, I'll talk about one brick at a time to build a wall in a little bit too. But you can be moving micros in these forks because you have the designated focus for the thing that you're trying to do.

But bigger than focus, I think it's the all time thing that I've seen paralyzed most individual humans and companies is this relationship around fear and that you can actually fail understanding. At least for me personally, fear actually stands for false evidence appearing real. We never fear things in the past.

We only fear things in the future. Therefore, it really can't be real. It's false evidence, shit we're making up in our brain that appears real. Oh my God. And is it excitement energy or is it fear? Because it's pretty much the same thing medically if you were to measure what was happening in your brain and body at that time.

But here's the thing. it ties into failure. I don't necessarily, and this is why by the way, for the past 10 years, I've been willing to throw out pieces of content that some people might be like, oh, that's half baked. Oh, that's not, oh, maybe, oh, there's this little tweak and change. Or now it's update and it can, I don't care.

[00:24:13] Liz Murphy: 

Now they're never publishing anything.

[00:24:15] George B. Thomas: 

yeah, every piece of content that I've ever put out there is, I know it's not good enough. I know it's not finished, but it's out there. Because it's a learning lesson. I don't, it's not failure. That piece of content didn't fail. It's just, Nope, not gonna make it like that again.

But, and as you do it, as you learn along the way, and I am a big advocate of learning it along the. So focus and fear, like you have to have a healthy relationship with those. Otherwise you're killing yourself when you talk about just this fundamental goal conversation that we're having.

[00:24:50] Liz Murphy:

 I listened to this incredible podcast. It's Adam Grant, who wrote originals, think Again. Incredible. And he does work life. It's an incredible podcast. I can't recommend it enough. And there is this one specific episode. Where they talk about imposter syndrome. one of the pieces of advice that he gave in that episode, which has stuck with me to this day, is if you were to go to court and your fear had to prove in a court of law that you will fail, would it win?

And the answer is always no. And in fact, I have a, I have someone in my life who deals with in my family, who deals with lots of anxiety and panic. And one of the things that I've talked to them about when they've come to me and we've talked about these things, is that if you stack the evidence, the only thing you seem to be bad at is predicting failure, because so far on paper, , nothing has gone wrong and you've gotten everything you've wanted.

Now, that doesn't mean you're not gonna hit bumps in the road. That doesn't mean everything's going to be easy. That doesn't mean a content wizard is gonna come down for the sky and make all that content for you. It won't happen. That wizard doesn't exist unless you hire me. My name is Liz. But that is the thing I find fascinating about it, and it's something I struggle with a lot.

I get into freeze modes with it, and I think you're absolutely right. One of the reasons why New Year's overwhelm is such a huge feeling, and I have to work on diminishing this within myself as well, is that we are sitting here making up insane stories about expectations, perceived failures that will never happen, and it's distracting ourselves.

From actually putting energy where it needs to go. Now, to be clear, I sound amazing up on my pedestal and super awesome about it, but I literally was not joking about having an existential crisis Earlier. I had a lunch at my desk that went 90 minutes, and I'm like there goes that time because I got stuck in my head about something that was not real.

[00:26:51] George B. Thomas: 

So much that I have to talk about right there. So first of all, and this ties back to almost this whole conversation, but when you were saying your last little bit there this saying shot into my mind, if you do what is easy in life will be hard. If you do what's hard in life will be easy.

If December, George and Liz would just do what's hard. Life would get easy in January, but we do what's easy in December and so January gets difficult. So again, if you do what is easy, life will be hard. If you do what's hard, life will be easy. And that is professional, personal, all the way around. But you mentioned two words that get me fired up.

[00:27:27] Liz Murphy: 

I saw it happening.

[00:27:28] George B. Thomas: 

up when you said imposter syndrome, like here's the thing, I get But it doesn't need to necessarily be a thing. Imposter syndrome happens when you are measuring yourself against others. If I could just be like Dharma Shaw, if I could just be like, Remington beg, if I could just be like Liz Murphy.

If I could just be like, and I could keep naming people that I think are way smarter than I am, that have more potential than I do but I can't do that. And one of the things that helped me when, because I went on this whole like, couple year listening to every inspirational, like speaker known to man trip.

And one thing that helped me with imposter syndrome, cuz I, I still face it and I used to face it real bad, but I have a way to juke myself back into it. And as is Matthew McConaughey tells a story about somebody asking him who his hero is, who like, and so he goes on this story about it's me, In 10 years.

And if you are measuring yourself against yourself in 10 years, there is no imposter syndrome. That person doesn't exist yet. And what's funny is his story goes on and he says, the guy came back to me in 10 years. And he goes have, have you reached your hero? No. My hero is me in 10 years. That's not

[00:28:46] Liz Murphy: 

bit of a moment.

[00:28:47] George B. Thomas: 

Yeah, that's not imposter syndrome. Because the right focus on the best you instead of the wrong focus. Why can't I be like them?

[00:28:55] Liz Murphy:

 So a couple of things I wanna pack and unpack there because my mind is going in two different directions. Look, I can do it too. First one is quick. He has a questionable relationship apparently with showering and deodorant, but damn if Matthew McConaughey isn't also a bongo playing wise man. The other thing too, which I think hits on the next piece of this, right?

Because in order to do great goal setting, in order to diffuse the overwhelm that people are feeling right now, going into next week, and quite frankly the rest of this month, it really doesn't matter when you're hearing this, because let's face it, do you know what my least favorite joke was when I, or not joke, but the least favorite saying that people would say, when I went to an agency, it's the end of January.

We're already th third of the way through the first quarter. It's oh my god. I hate you. Please don't say that. But you're kidding on another thing that is standing in the way, which is the comparison trap, not giving ourselves credit, looking outside of ourselves instead of looking within ourselves.

This is way deeper than I expected this conversation to go, but I am loving this.

[00:29:55] George B. Thomas:

 the thing too, and this goes back to documentation and the fact that when people say nice things about us, when we create moments of just amazing user experience, we're not tracking that. We're not documenting it. We're not internalizing it. And again, this is something I do. I literally have a Slack channel that is team victories.

And every time somebody says something, does something and it should make us feel good, it goes in that team victory. And people are like, George, you have a team. Yes, there's already a little bit of a team. Anyway, that's a whole nother podcast. But there's team victory so that everybody can get the feeling and understanding of the impact that they're making.

in the world with the things that we're doing because here's the thing, and again, this becomes a way bigger conversation than goals, but it's important to the goal conversation because if you are setting your goals on the fact that you want to be successful or you are setting your goals on the fact that you want to be significant, those goals will be dramatically different.

[00:30:59] Liz Murphy: 

Okay, so I'm gonna play devil's advocate here because I know a lot of the people in our Hub Heroes community, some of them are like us, right? They're entrepreneurs, they're the business owner. We feel like, I at least remember feeling this way when I was a cog in the machine. Even at the best organizations, I wasn't the person sitting at the top.

I didn't feel like I was enabled or empowered, not because I worked at a bad organization. Trust me, they were all in on professional development. But when you are the marketer, when you are the mid-level, when you are the knowledge worker inside of an organization, you may not necessarily be the one at the top who gets to decide whether or not the goals are significant or success-based.

Sometimes we have, there are goals that are set for us. So how do you reconcile this? Do I wanna be successful or significant mindset for someone who isn't at the top directing where we're all gonna go in the new year?

[00:31:55] George B. Thomas: 

See there's a flawed mindset right there.

Fact that the top leads, you can lead from the backseat. Listen, I was a number two at several agencies and I was the leader and I've had people say, dude you've been leading for years. Yeah, but I was leading from the backseat. It's always been about significance.

Even though a manager was handing me KPIs and goals, I just had to figure out how to make their wants fall in line with my strategy and my plan for where I wanted to go, and they would go along as well. Okay? So first of all, if you're stuck and or feel stuck, cuz you're not stuck by the way, that's just a feeling.

If you feel stuck, realize internalize, you can lead from whatever seat you're in because let me give you a dirty little secret. Most people at the top baby, they're just holding on. They're just holding on. Cuz this train is running fast and they're not sure how to manage thirty, fifty, a hundred and fifty people.

They're not sure how to have 7, 17, 23 meetings in a day. They're not sure how to get 2000 emails out of their inbox. So realize, while they're great at forward facing, I got this ish, I'm the leader in the dark hallway ca chasm where they can actually curl up in the fetal position and cry. They're probably glad that there's some people in the middle taking the reins and leading.

[00:33:25] Liz Murphy: 

The other thing I would say to that too one of my favorite bosses that I ever had, his name was Sean Quill. I worked with him when I was at Living Social many moons ago, and he said, and this is something where there's a reason why people don't leave. Bad companies, they leave bad leaders. But one of the things that he stuck with, that stuck with me when I embarked on my own people management career, cuz I used to manage teams of like 17 people was that, ah, I work for you, you don't work for me. And he always said that, and that always really stuck with me. But the reality is that whether or not you have your own Sean Quill, someone who has that mentality, someone who allows someone to drive from the back, cuz some leaders don't.

The reality is that you actually are still in control of the goals that you set for you.

[00:34:06] George B. Thomas:


[00:34:06] Liz Murphy: 

And sometimes that goal can mean things that are for the organization or if you do not feel empowered, enabled, uplifted to do the things, to grow the way you need and want to grow, maybe one of your goals is, well as a human.

am I in the right place? And that's a scary thing to say because I spent over a year or so battling against doing, taking the step that I needed to take, which was going out on my own. That's why it hurts so dang much. Now, I walked the path that I was meant to walk, but this is where we get back to the importance of goal setting and that, George, I gave you a question.

I knew that would make you cranky. I knew that because I think people seed control emotionally. Now, granted, your sphere of control may not be may. You may not be controlling the things that you want to control. You may not be in charge of what the KPIs are. But I think you do need to be understand that you are in control of how you show up.

You are in con control of where you are, and you are in control of when somebody asks you a question, you give an honest answer being that stakeholder at the table. And I think that's a key part of the responsibility piece.

[00:35:12] George B. Thomas: 

Yeah. It's so funny because for me, I can tell you what that looks like. And I can also tell you as I look around the ecosystem that I live in, I find this to be similar in other folks. What that looks like is that you have a rooted like foundation in servanthood, right? Another thing to Google is servant leadership and that's the thing, like when I have people that work with me, work for me, however you want to put it, I am willing to take out the trash.

I'm willing to look at the 50 forms in HubSpot. I'm willing to redo a thousand landing pages if need. Because I'm here to serve. How do I enable you to be the best you can be? By the way, we have this conversation a lot when it's like sales, marketing and the C-suite looking out externally, how do I enable you as the customer to be able to buy easier?

How do I enable you as the potential lead to actually go through the buyer's journey in a streamlined process? The problem here, and again, if we're helping other people inside of our organization, organization hit their goals, and if we're trying to focus on the right goals, it has to be not only a conversation of external, but a conversation of internal as well to these things that we're talking about.

Liz, I wanna hit one other piece cuz you were talking and like thing, a thing popped in my head. You said something about being, am I in the right place? , right? I think there's a plethora of those types of things, by the way, that could align with your goals and if you're headed in the right direction, that you may wanna say to yourself, and it's, am I in the right place?

Do I know the right things? Am I doing the right thing? Like those types of, am I, am I, am I, am I, am I in a positive light? And if too many of those are off kilter, then that's when you start to look at something like okay, we need to adjust.

[00:37:09] Liz Murphy:

 So we've talked a lot already about the flawed way in which we look at goals and resolution. We've talked a lot about what are the things that we need to dismantle internally from a mentality and mindset perspective. I wanna now get into with this last part of our conversation, great.

So I'm no longer a fear mongering head case. I'm exerting control over my environment. I am showing up, I am here. I am not as mad at December. Liz, she's done a lot of things this year that were scary and terrifying and maybe she's just cut herself some slack. 

[00:37:44] George B. Thomas: 


[00:37:45] Liz Murphy: 

Grace? Yes, grace. Thank you.

All the white women on Instagram for ruining that really appreciate you. God, there's nothing we don't ruin. Really. There isn't. What does school setting look like?

[00:37:55] George B. Thomas: 

Yeah, the simpler, the better. That's the first thing that I'll throw out there. Cuz as soon as you make something complex, it adds confusion. It's hard to follow through and it ends up like every other goal or New Year's resolution or whatever you call it, gone. Just gone. And it's, you're done. So keep it simple.

The other thing that I really like to do, and this is gonna break down into another story that I heard in love and a book, that if you have not read it, you should read. If you can take this massive goal, and by the way, let's not even talk about the fact that when you set goals, I need you to dream a little bit. I need you to push past your comfort zone to what you're placing these goals at. But then what I want you to do, once you have this massive, I dreamt it up, here's the goal that I want to achieve. And by the way, if you need training wheels, what I would suggest is that maybe you set your goals in three levels.

This is what I need. This would be nice and holy. Like I can't believe that just happened, right? So there's that three layers that'll give you some training wheels, but dream when you're trying to set these goals. So then break it down, right? Break it down into the habits and the life that you have to live on a daily basis, weekly basis, monthly basis, yearly basis, depending on how grandiose the goal that you're trying to achieve.

So like for me, one of my goals I set years and years ago, I want to be on the main stage of inbound. Now I quit talking about it because I decided to put my money where my mouth is and just get to. And start building G B T into whatever it could be. And maybe someday, instead of Gary V, it'll be me. And that even rhymed people.

I'm just gonna throw that out there. But, so here's the thing. That's a dream, that's a dream goal. Now I have to break it down into the habits, the, the daily, the weekly, the monthly things that I have to do that I have to focus on to, to reach that level. With that, the story that I love, and you can Google it on YouTube or YouTube it or whatever you'll find it, is this story that Will Smith talks about where his father breaks down this like wall in the shop and him and his brother have to rebuild the wall.

It's basically over summer and their mindset is, this is impossible. We'll never be able to do this. But once they started to lay, one, brick became two. Two became three. Three became six. Six became 12. One brick at a time. And before they knew it, they had built an entire wall. That's the thing. People get frozen, paralyzed in time because they keep looking at this big goal.

that's really hard to measure how close or how far away you've gotten to that big goal. But if you can see each brick you've laid in my world, each piece of content I've created, each person that I've impacted, each connection that I make on social, each human that I help in some sort of special way by being a good human myself, like each brick. Pretty soon you'll have that wall. So what wall are you building? What bricks are you laying? How are you getting to where you want to go? That's what I have to ask you. And again I'm talking to the business owner. I'm talking to the marketer. I'm talking to the sales professional service professor.

More importantly, I'm talking to you as a human, like, how are you doing it? One brick at a time, one habit at a time, one movement at a time. One of the things I love to say, Liz, is 1% better each and every day. How are you doing that? How are you incorporating that in your life?

[00:41:19] Liz Murphy:

 When I think about great goal setting, first of all I love that story. I read, think what you want about him. I don't really care. He's an incredibly inspirational human. And Will's, will Smith's book is fascinating. I loved it. It resonated a lot with me and that story really stuck with me because, again, Often we feel like we can't achieve our goals because we're just staring at the giant wall and we're not even bothering to take a step.

And even if you end up not achieving that goal, even if it only became part of a wall, or maybe you end up building something entirely different, it you only know because you tried. Now the other piece of it, there are a couple other things I wanna throw in there too. So from the book, which I know you love Atomic Habits by James Clear one of the things that he talks about a lot is that it's easier to, instead of like goals that are geared around like a thing or a milestone, it's better to set goals that are identity based because you're not working toward this one thing.

I remember I had this workout goal a long time ago where I was like, I was gonna do a hundred workouts and I did it, and what am I gonna do? Just set another a hundred workouts, like it lost its luster and I fell off. I fell off the path. So I talked a lot about the goal setting that I did earlier this year where I spent four months writing goals.

And my most effective goals were, I was like, I am a person who does this. I am healthier or whatever. Like writing identity goals where it's like, I am a runner who has completed an Ironman marathon. That is a great goal, right? I am an Ironman Marathon champion or whatever. I, no, no runners can tell me what that is cuz I believe fun runs are a conspiracy perpetrated by the fitness lobby to sell shoes.

Totally different podcast, totally different day. But, I had identity goals that got me to where I am right It wasn't I'm gonna start my own business. It was, I'm a visionary entrepreneur who's going to challenge the way content has always been done. It's visualizing and getting really specific about the person you wanna be.

And then if you do something every single day, Where you just are living as that person. It's weird. Your body catches up, your environment catches up. Everything around you starts catching up. And what's actually really interesting about it is when I set those goals and started living those goals, and instead of being like I'm gonna check this thing off the list, and I did it instead, I was saying, my goals are based around, this is who I wanna be and this is who I am now.

I have committed on this day. This is now who I am. It made it really easy to spot. The other thing that's important in goal setting, what are the yeses I'm saying right now? That should be nos.

[00:43:43] George B. Thomas: 

Oh, so I gotta jump in here. First of all, if you're listening to this and you haven't read the book Atomic Habits, it was on my notes to talk about it as well. So I'm glad Liz brought it up. It's, it could be like that. Hang on. The Big Leap by Gay Hendrix, an Atomic Habits when paired together could be life changing to everybody listening to this podcast episode.

But I have to unpack this because you said the words vision. . And then also earlier in the podcast, I said, am I? And you did something very interesting. Listeners, you can Remi rewind. But Liz started to say, I am. And when you have a goal and you attach it to your vision and you change your language to a language of affirmation, you are training your brain that you are already that person that you envisioned that you wanna become.

I am strong, I am powerful, I am smart. I am a HubSpot hero. I am whatever it is you need to put in there, changing the language to that in an effort to expedite the habits and the traction that you're trying to get on the journey that you're headed with this dream goal that we're talking about. It's like that, right?

There's a ninja tip. Change the way that you talk about yourself and change the way that you talk about the journey that you're on. And it'll be fundamentally far different than you've ever done historically.

[00:45:02] Liz Murphy: 

All right let's tie this up with a bow.

[00:45:04] George B. Thomas: 


[00:45:05] Liz Murphy: 

I'm actually not gonna ask you what your one thing is because I think there's too much in this episode. You've literally, there, there's so much here where if I were to extrapolate this out, I don't know, I don't wanna ask about the one thing. George, I want you to

[00:45:17] George B. Thomas:

 boy. I'm getting nervous. I'm getting nervous now.

[00:45:20] Liz Murphy:

 I promise to do the same thing.

So instead of a one thing you and I are each gonna share, let's get vulnerable and share a real honest goal that we have set for ourselves in the coming.

[00:45:28] George B. Thomas: 

Oh, wow.

[00:45:29] Liz Murphy:

You can share more than one if you'd like, but I don't want it to be like all it's round revenue. Let let's walk the walk. Let's show a, let's get a little Victorian trashy, show a little emotional skin, 

[00:45:39] George B. Thomas:

 yeah. So it's interesting. This past six months has been amazing and more than I could ever have dreamed of. Yet at the same time, slightly depressing. So let me unpack that because people are like, holy shit, what just haven't So in one area or multiple areas, it is a skyrocket and I just can't even believe that this is the journey I'm on.

But there are two historical things that have been really important to me that have fallen to the wayside over the last six months. One is the lack. Of getting out and walking and moving and so a lot of people, or some people listening to this know that a year and a half or two years ago got diagnosed with ra, went on this health kick, lost like 79 pounds in seven months.

And let's just say this, I've gained some of it back because I've been eating the wrong things, not doing the right things lost sight of my goal, everything that we've been talking about here. And so one of the things for me is how do I get away from my computer? and move more and actually get that weight back off, if not more weight.

But again, I have to tie that to the real reason, not because I wanna reach 216 and a half pounds, but because when I step on stage, when I do this, when I show up this way, I want to be able to present my way in this way. So that's one. Two, I will give you a second one by the way. I could give you a third one cuz there is a whole revenue goal, which is like mind blowing to me, but might be a different episode or on the stage of inbound someday or something like that, that has been happening.

But the second one, and again, everybody that knows me knows that education for me has been a key factor in getting me where I am today. The lack of educating myself. In a historical way of HubSpot Academy podcasts, audiobooks. Ha it that's been a desert. That's the freaking Sahara. However, the amount of stuff I've learned in just running a business and the amount of stuff that I've learned about myself, and I'm actually not realizing this until this moment that I'm speaking on this podcast.

I've actually had a brand new college degree in other things,

I've still felt guilty about the fact that there's an SEO two certification and a C M S two for developer certification. And and there's all these certifications that are falling off and I'm like, ah but then I got people I gotta help. But still, that's an excuse. . So how do I map out the time that I need to be moving and walking, and how do I map out the time that I need to educate myself? Because here's the big deal, holy field or the real deal, holy field. As soon as those two things get into my brain and start to fight, it dissolves the whole situation because it's like now I can't focus on what I want to focus on because I'm focused on the things that I haven't been focused on, and it's like shooting like big fricking bomb torpedoes in my brain when I just need to like, if I went for a walk and listen to a dang certification for even 30 minutes a day, the rest of my day, that war wouldn't be happening.

[00:48:54] Liz Murphy: 

And we actually spend more time, like I think about it, I don't wanna do laundry. I'll spend three hours thinking about how I won't wanna do laundry when literally the physical act where I need to be engaged in doing laundry. It's 15 minutes. Like that's the thing, we'll spend more time emotionally killing ourselves over that stuff than actually doing it.

My goals this year I alluded, I talked about this earlier about how I did that whole goal setting thing earlier this year, how it was so much easier when I wasn't running my own business to actually create the and I am someone who is purposefully creating that time and recommitting myself to goal setting.

I know that's a strange goal to have, but I'm letting the car drive me a little bit instead of driving my own car. And that's, I wanna be the driver. I am the driver. So that's, that's the big goal. The other piece of it is similar to yours, I have always, I think to get very personal, I'm six feet tall.

I've got a big personality. I am a larger woman, but that's never really held me back in a lot of ways. But what would happen if I took my health as seriously as I did my career? What would happen if I applied the same level of annoying tenacity

[00:50:04] George B. Thomas: 


[00:50:05] Liz Murphy: 

to that part of my life? Because it's something I've always.

I'm always gonna be this way. I'm always gonna be that girl. And the reality is yeah, it's the negative self-talk. But I think the other thing is I'm 40, you know what? I actually am more at peace with my body now than I've ever been. And also my goal now is not have the sleek whatever body. Even when I was younger and it might tip top shape, like rowing crew, I was still five 10 in a size like 16, which is healthy and normal cuz I came from a big Italian family.

So that's the thing where it's I wanna be healthy, I wanna feel more confident, I wanna have more energy. I wanna go on stage, not worry oh, am I gonna get sweaty? Like I want to be free and mobile and happy. And I think what can happen is that, and this I think wraps it up really nicely, goes back to what I said about the human piece of it.

If you get two goal oriented and two tunnel visioned on only a specific set of goals and not the ones that serve you as a human, you'll be surprised what parts of the rest of your life will fall off or get neglected.

[00:51:05] George B. Thomas: 

preach. Preach.

[00:51:07] Liz Murphy: 

And with that, George, happy New Year.

[00:51:10] George B. Thomas:

 Ah, happy New year, Liz. Happy New Year, everybody.

[00:51:13] Liz Murphy:

 So don't forget if you like this show, if you wanna, if you have feedback for us, please do not forget to leave a review. And if you're hearing this now, and also wanna share in your review what your goals are for this upcoming year, we'd love to hear that. And also don't forget to go to hub

We still have some seats available for our SEO Content Strategy Masterclass. If you don't know what we're talking about, please go back to the previous two episodes. Or if you just let content that makes money, you should check it out. But with that, I'm Liz Murphy. George, it's great to talk to you as always.

[00:51:45] George B. Thomas: 

You too, Liz.

[00:51:47] Liz Murphy: 

New Year. Woo.

[00:51:48] George B. Thomas: 

Liz, it's funny because again, we'll put in the show notes that we forgot to tell 'em to use the coupon code Hub Hero or Hub Heroes. But yeah, it's funny because I wanna unpack with you real quick. One other thing that I wanted to share, but I was scared to share as far as the goals, and that is, I didn't bring up the book. I didn't bring up the book, and I know that it's time, like it's time for the book, and I just, at some point, maybe I'll tell the world.

[00:52:39] Liz Murphy:

 I think you should tell them now because you have been telling me about this book, God, for years. You told me about this book when I first met you. This is, this book has been in your heart for how.

[00:52:50] George B. Thomas:

 yeah. And what's funny is so much of the episode that we just did, A lot of things that I want to talk about and incorporate into this book that is just, I, everybody that I talk to, they're like, you need to birth that. I don't like pain , I don't like pain. I don't wanna birth it, but I need to

[00:53:13] Liz Murphy: 

you like the kids?

[00:53:15] George B. Thomas:

 I like the kids. On some days. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Noah, don't edit that out.

[00:53:21] Liz Murphy:

 so wait, why don't you tell, what? Could you tell me a little bit about it? I know, but maybe for those who were stuck around.

[00:53:28] George B. Thomas: 

Yeah. And it's funny you used the word stuck right there because the book is literally for people who feel like they're stuck in a place in their life and they want to go in a different direction. They want to elevate themselves. They're not sure how to get there. And it's a lot of stories from my life and o over 50 years now that I've lived understanding that I came from a one room log cabin with no running water.

I've gone to school in a one room schoolhouse. I rode my pony to that school and have gone from that to like literally the HubSpot helper Own your own business like j where we're at now, right? And so it's just been this journey. There's been some lessons along the way and I just wanna incorporate that into a manual.

That somebody who either older than me, younger than me, just getting started out or been doing it forever can go, oh my gosh, I found the blueprint to how I get where I want to go. I need to create that.

[00:54:27] Liz Murphy: 

I would read it.

[00:54:30] George B. Thomas: 

I'd read it too.

[00:54:32] Liz Murphy: 

do you wanna know what my third goal is?

[00:54:33] George B. Thomas: 

Oh. Yep.

[00:54:34] Liz Murphy: 

Take a nap.

Bring napping back into my life.

[00:54:37] George B. Thomas: 

Hashtag naps for everyone.

[00:54:40] Liz Murphy: 

It's also equitable to a book. Am I right? No.

Okay. I'm alone on that one.

[00:54:45] George B. Thomas: