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Attracting, Engaging, and Delighting with SMS Marketing + HubSpot (HubHeroes, Ep. 68)

hubspot sms texting marketing sales strategy kixie

In this episode, we're joined by David Gable, the head of sales at Kixie. (For those who don't know, Kixie offers automated calling and texting solutions for sales teams that using leading CRMs — including HubSpot!) David joined us for an exciting topic that's also pretty controversial, depending on who you ask.

What roles should SMS and text messaging play in your inbound strategies to attract, engage, and delight your customers? Or is SMS an invasive relic of the past that should be set aside by brands, because it does more harm than good to the relationships we want to establish?

The answers to these questions are not as black-and-white as you may think. So, strap in folks! In this passionate, hot take-filled episode, we are going deep down the SMS rabbit hole to help take your inbound strategies to new heights.

What We Talked About

  • What do most inbound marketers get wrong about SMS marketing? What are the most common myths and misconceptions?

  • How should inbound marketers and brands think about SMS marketing? What mindsets should they possess? How should they be looking to SMS as part of their broader strategies to attract, engage, and delight?

  • What are great examples of SMS we've seen out in the wild from brands?

  • How does social selling fit into the sales process?

  • What are the most common mistakes folks make when implementing SMS as part of their inbound program?

  • Let's talk technology — how easy is it to integrate SMS if you're using HubSpot for your business?

  • How would you like to see brands challenge themselves in 2024 with SMS texting?

  • How does Devyn really feel about being the recipient of SMS campaigns from brands? And what will happen if you send him anything?

And so much more ... 

Additional Resources

(We've made it easy!)

🤔  What role should SMS messaging play in your #inbound strategies to attract, engage, and delight your customers? Or is SMS an invasive relic of the past?

David Gable of Kixie joins us this week to answer these two big questions and so much more! 


#smstexting #smsstrategy #smsmarketing #smssales #hubspot #kixie

💥  How should brands think about SMS texting as part of their strategies?

💥  What do most brands get wrong about leveraging SMS in their sales and marketing efforts?

💥  What are the most common mistakes we've seen with SMS implementation from brands?

David Gable of Kixie joins us this week to answer these two big questions and so much more! 


#smstexting #smsstrategy #smsmarketing #smssales #hubspot #kixie

😱 "Texting is the preferred method of communication for most of us, for most of our day. And because it's preferred, we're especially defensive about it."

David Gable of Kixie joins us this week to unpack the controversial topic of SMS texting and inbound for brands. Check out our conversation:


#smstexting #smsstrategy #smsmarketing #smssales #hubspot #kixie

Meet your HubHeroes

Liz Murphy


Agency vet, content therapist, messaging strategist, HubHero wrangler.

Devyn Bellamy


HubSpotter, partner enabler, strategy wizard, BLACK@INBOUND.

Max Cohen


HubSpotter, senior solutions engineer, CRM evangelist, a millennial on TikTok.

George B. Thomas


HubHeroes leader, growth catalyst, guardian of humans, HubSpot expert.

[00:00:00] Max Cohen: How you doing Liz?

[00:00:01] Liz Moorehead: I'm good. Are we ready to rock a new episode of Hub Heroes? Even though we are unsupervised, George is on vacation

[00:00:08] Max Cohen: Yeah, we've been, we've been de Georged this

[00:00:11] David Gable: that's great. 

[00:00:13] Liz Moorehead: don't know how I feel about it. Like, I know that he and I, week after week, will sometimes, like, you know, we keep each other on each other's toes, you know? Like, that's our thing.

[00:00:23] Max Cohen: Mm hmm.

[00:00:24] Liz Moorehead: I'm unchecked.

[00:00:25] David Gable: I do like the lack of supervision. I do like the lack of supervision. I like that part. That part's exciting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[00:00:32] Max Cohen: yeah,

[00:00:33] Liz Moorehead: Oh, yeah. I need an adult. I need another adult. Like, I need many adults.

[00:00:36] Max Cohen: we get, we get, we get unhinged Liz this

[00:00:39] David Gable: Yeah. 

[00:00:40] Liz Moorehead: boy.

[00:00:41] Max Cohen: Yes,

[00:00:41] Liz Moorehead: Oh, boy.

[00:00:42] David Gable: Liz Unchained, dude.

[00:00:44] Max Cohen: yes.

[00:00:45] Liz Moorehead: That's what's up. You know what else is nice though, guys? We do have someone warming that seat this week, and I'm sure our listeners have noticed a new voice on. We've got David Gable, head of sales at Kixi. That's you, buddy.

[00:00:59] David Gable: is me! Hey, guys, how's it going? 

[00:01:01] Liz Moorehead: It's going great. So Kixi, my understanding is that you guys offer automated calling and texting solutions for sales teams using CRMs like HubSpot, right?

[00:01:12] David Gable: it's almost like someone, it's almost like you read those words, like we, those words were just given to you by someone here at Kix. They're so 

[00:01:20] Liz Moorehead: smart gave them to me. 

[00:01:21] David Gable: Yes, I could not have said it better myself, Liz. It's almost as if it were typed and emailed to you and read right back to me. It was so specific and actionable.

I love it. It's great.

[00:01:30] Liz Moorehead: You would be so proud of me. No one actually sent it to me. I did that research 

[00:01:34] David Gable: did you really?

[00:01:35] Liz Moorehead: That's what I did.

[00:01:37] David Gable: Ooh, she nailed it.

[00:01:38] Liz Moorehead: I'm going to, I'm an empowered, strong, independent woman.

[00:01:42] David Gable: You are and unsupervised and you did it all on your own. It's amazing. It's amazing. It really is. Yes.

[00:01:48] Liz Moorehead: one day I'm going to want the vote, until then, thanks bud. Thanks bud. I look forward to hearing about that in my 360

[00:01:55] David Gable: Yeah.

[00:01:55] Max Cohen: Yes. I don't know what that is, but I'll be sure to give one to you. Yeah.

[00:02:04] Liz Moorehead: clearly with someone like David on today, as our folks at home might've guessed, we are talking about. SMS texting in the context of marketing, and that's a bit of a controversial topic, depending on who you ask. So I want us to go ahead and just dive right into this conversation, David, before I get to you, Max and Devin, when I say SMS text marketing.

What immediately comes to mind for you, because I will admit, as I was preparing for this, I kind of had some complex feelings about it. There are some brands that the way they use SMS texting, it makes me want to chuck my phone into a river. But then there are other cases where I, I started going through my phone and I'm like, Oh, wow.

But they're actually ones that I interact with very regularly that are purposeful, that are helpful and that I actually use. So it made me wonder, you know, my knee jerk reaction. I don't like SMS texting. Maybe it's, it's more circumstantial, but Max and Devin, I would love to hear from you guys about that.

What are your initial thoughts when you hear

[00:03:12] Max Cohen: I want to say one word. I want to say one word. That's my initial thoughts. And then I want Devin to go into his thing, because I think they'll tie together very well. Ready? Careful. Careful. That's what I'm going to

[00:03:22] Liz Moorehead: ah, ah.

[00:03:23] David Gable: ha ha ha ha ha

[00:03:25] Max Cohen: Great power comes great responsibility.

[00:03:27] David Gable: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[00:03:29] Max Cohen: Devin, take it away.

[00:03:30] David Gable: ha ha ha ha ha Are

[00:03:31] Devyn Bellamy: Um, I'm just going to apologize

[00:03:34] Liz Moorehead: Already, already in the chat. Wait, wait. Can we just point that in the chat?

[00:03:39] David Gable: SMS marketing right now, Devin? Is that what's going on? Have you gotten text message marketing? He has!

[00:03:44] Liz Moorehead: He's gotten like five,

[00:03:45] David Gable: the danger, right there! Look what can happen, you could derail a whole webinar just with improperly timed text message communication. 

[00:03:52] Liz Moorehead: we also talk about how Chad in the chat pane

was already ready for this? I'm ready for a Devin rant. So Devin, take it away, bud.

[00:04:00] Devyn Bellamy: I could barely contain myself trying to be really, you know, respectful of our guests and the work you do. Um, but I hate SMS text messaging with a passion. Like it, it, it goes beyond chapping my hide. It, it, it really like with, 

[00:04:18] David Gable: grinds your 

[00:04:19] Devyn Bellamy: Oh, like from the core of my being, I hate it. I

have never gotten an SMS marketing text that I was happy with.

The only time text messaging from a company is okay to me is when it's transactional. Like when I'm calling triple a and they're letting me know someone's coming outside of that, the store letting me know that they've got this sale because I put my number in the kiosk for my receipt. I know. Or one time I applied for a loan and these people keep, Oh, by the way, you got approved for the loan.

Yeah, but I didn't get it. So leave me alone. And, and, and I keep like, I've marked them as spam and they still, cause I did stop and it didn't work. And then, and then I marked them as spam. And so now. I get these met and they send them from new numbers, but my phone is smart enough. I'm like, I know that spam.

And so every now and then I'll get a text message indicator. And if I look at the text messages, Hey, this was spam. And I'm like, I already know who it

was from. Cause they're the only ones that are blowing me up. But I never, never since SMS messaging has become a thing. Have I been happy. To get a text from a company.

And the only thing, the only thing that frustrates me more about SMS text messages is the fact that they work. I hate the fact that people get results. From SMS messaging because that just guarantees I'm going to get more messages. And it's like,

[00:05:51] David Gable: Yep. 

[00:05:52] Devyn Bellamy: I wish, I wish you people weren't so okay with strangers texting you because then they wouldn't text me.

I wish there was. An SMS, do not text list that I could just get on just to, because it's like, it's like direct mail, except instead of your mailbox, they're in your bathroom. And it's just, it's so, so intrusive and just so annoying to me, but every 

[00:06:19] Liz Moorehead: how do you really 

[00:06:19] Devyn Bellamy: every marketer that 

[00:06:21] David Gable: Like let let it out though, like, yeah. 

[00:06:24] Devyn Bellamy: has reported positive results and I hate it. 

[00:06:27] Max Cohen: Yeah, they're in the bathroom and they got the remote switch to your bidet is what they're, is what they're doing, but

[00:06:31] Liz Moorehead: Whoa, whoa,

[00:06:32] David Gable: will get your attention. It will get your

[00:06:34] Max Cohen: it's invasive,

[00:06:35] David Gable: Yeah.

[00:06:36] Max Cohen: The one thing that I want to add on, so, cause I wanted to stay careful and then I knew Devin was going to do that and then I want to, I want to add my, the rest of my thoughts onto that first, right?

Is, um, I, I think of SMS. Almost in the same, almost with a couple of key differences. Then I think about email, right? There's a right way to do it. There's a wrong way to do it. Right. And I think everyone here, including you, Dave is going to agree with that. There's a right and wrong way to do everything that you do with HubSpot or anything else.

Right. Um, when I think of texting, I think the biggest kind of difference between that and email, because think about it with emails. Like I look at screen, I see message that has words. I maybe do something because of it. Like in that sense, they're the same. However. Email is very passive. People can interact with their email when they want to.

They can shut their notifications off. They can say, I'm only going to check my inbox later. And in that point, it's just how much are you messing with their life when they're doing that, right? But you check your text messages immediately. You stop what you're doing and look at your text message. Your, your Apple watch taps you on the wrist and goes, Hey, there's something really important.

You got, you got, it trained you to do this, right?

[00:07:44] Liz Moorehead: It makes me so angry. Cause I'll be like, is it a hot guy? No, it's 10 percent off of Geico.

[00:07:50] Max Cohen: Exactly.

[00:07:51] David Gable: Next best thing. You know what I mean?

[00:07:53] Max Cohen: Exactly. So when I, when I think of SMS and when I think of like, it's, it's, it's interesting with, with for marketing, I think you got to think about how marketing supports experiences that people go through. And I think with SMS, Like an SMS should not be doing like the job of a, of a blog post, right?

Blog posts and like content you create goes out there and it interacts with people that you don't have permission to talk to yet. Right. Cause they just freely find it on the internet. Right. However, if you get someone's cell phone number and you hit them up and you, they were not expecting you to text them.

That is like instant violation of like my privacy. Right. When I get political campaigns. Smashing me on text messages. I'm like, I can't write stop fast enough. And I hit the report button. I, it's like, no, don't do that to me. Right? Like if you're going to, if you're going to buy my info, shoot me an email.

Don't text me. Right. Because like that text message could be a text from my wife, a text for my kid, a text from someone who's like really important to me. And when you've invaded that sacred attention wave that I have, and you did it to try to sell me something and I didn't ask you to do that. Hate you hate you so much, right?

However, if I was expecting to hear from you, that's a different story, right? So I think like it's the way in which you use it I have two brands that I freaking love when they text me right and they're trying to sell me something But it's under a very specific circumstance in which they know I buy their shit all the time Right and they know that something that I like Is buying stuff from them, but they have the data to prove that.

They weren't doing this before they knew I liked to buy shit from them. They got my phone number a while ago. They didn't ramp up the text messaging until I spent a shitload of money with them. Right? Um, you know, it wasn't, Oh, we got your phone the first time and you haven't bought anything from us?

Which is what usually people do. Right? Don't do that. But it's like, hey, thoughtful, like, drops of new products, including, like, a nice, rich, like, image. I love it. And I'll, I'll shout them out later and stuff. But that's kind of what I'm, where I'm thinking. There's a time and place for it, just like there is for anything

[00:10:10] David Gable: Yeah, I totally,

[00:10:11] Liz Moorehead: I want to turn to you here. Yeah. Because what I want to, what I would like to hear from you is. First of all, your reaction to the clearly complex myriad of feelings

[00:10:21] David Gable: yeah, no, I,

[00:10:21] Liz Moorehead: we all just dumped on you.

[00:10:23] Max Cohen: Yeah.

[00:10:24] David Gable: of feelings. I heard Devin. Yeah, it was, it was, it was subtle, but I was able to tease it out. I, it's interesting because I, when you message SMS messaging, I have the same initial reaction, you know, I'm a, I'm a human who's evolved over millions of years to identify threats and generally ignore things that are going well as such.

When you ask me about SMS messaging, my mind goes immediately to all those SMS that I do not want to receive like immediately. And what I forget oftentimes, unless I really think about it is how great it is to have SMS messaging instead of having to call people for all the things I've been texting them about, right?

Like in my interpersonal day, I love texting because it's synchronous to my schedule, which is like the most important thing, right? I'm willing to forego lots of benefits of a call, like tonality. Not being, not mistaking what the person is saying, getting angry at them for no reason, and then, then them questioning whether why they've ever moved in with you.

It's a long story, but, uh, you know, text messaging is, is an easy way to fall into traps like that. Calling. Much better, right? However, I'm going to sacrifice all that because I'd much rather have it be in sync with my schedule. I can text you when it's convenient for me, you reply when it's convenient for you, and everything's gravy.

But like Max said, we want to make sure we're texting at a time that is actually appropriate about a subject that I actually want to hear from you about, you know? And so, like, I'll give you, just as a quick, quick counter example, because I think it's better than me arguing in the abstract, but like, if someone comes on the Kixie chat, um, and starts chatting, and they say, I love your chat bot.

They don't ever say that, but I want to talk to a human, right? And then they don't get a response in a minute, and then they bounce, right? That person would love to get a text message, probably, if we have it from an agent here at KXE, an actual human here at KXE. Right? They would love that. Now, they haven't overtly said to me, and you're likely unlikely to really hear this very often, Hey, please text me, you know, they're probably not going to hear that, but man, they would love to talk to a human.

And so that's a great, so we trigger an auto text, right? From an, from an agent here at Kixie to that person. Hey, sorry, comment to call in the chat. Sorry, we couldn't get a human over to you in less than a minute. I'd love to talk to you whenever you're free. What a great use of text messaging. So I think to Max's point, it is definitely contextual.

And I think You know, the mistake people make is thinking that it's, you know, it's a hammer, everything's a nail, I just need to start, send out more auto texts, it's like, it's like the bad days of email spam, and it was just like, more emails, you know, and it's just like, if I send out enough tens of thousands of emails, people will buy my product.

No one is buying your product direct off of SMS marketing, you know what I mean? But, but it can be a great way to bridge conversation. Yeah.

[00:12:56] Max Cohen: And that's super interesting. You bring it up. I think because, because what we need to do for everyone listening here is like, there was, I think there's two different sort of like schools of thought when we're thinking about texting inside of HubSpot. There is sending texts meant to be the sort of like traditional, I hate saying the word blast, right?

Where it's like, here's a list of people. We're going to promote this thing and send it out to everybody. And that would, I think when people think of like, Marketing text message. A lot of people are thinking of that, right? Whereas kind of what you mentioned, you're not talking about sending out texts as if it was like an email blast, like a list of people you're saying, how can we give a more convenient way for you and your sales rep to kind of connect with each other?

When waiting for a Zoom call scheduled at a certain time is not always going to be convenient for everyone's schedule as

[00:13:44] David Gable: That's exactly right.

[00:13:45] Max Cohen: Yeah. So like in what's cool in HubSpot is like both of those things can happen. Right. And you can use them in unison, but there can be elements of marketing, text messaging, or SMS or whatever it is.

But then there's literal ways where you inside the HubSpot interface, like you can literally empower your sales reps to have text conversations, conversations, not. Broadcasts, like conversations back and forth for someone who likes to just be able to text. So it's like, you got a rep working on a deal or something.

They've got a quick question about like the configuration of the, of the doodad that you're selling them. You can like, you can like say, Oh, Hey, did you need this in the red or in the blue? Oh, the blue. Okay, great. I'll update the quote for it. Right. Instead of being like, let's hop on a zoom call. They'll be like, whatever this is.

You know what I mean?

[00:14:26] David Gable: One. You nailed it. 100%. And I think the keyword, you know, you mentioned like unsolicited text message, the keyword being solicited, right? Like, and oftentimes that solicitation might not come in a really over a way like, Hey, please text me at my cell phone number, but it might come at like, Hey, I'd love to talk to a human or, or.

Crap, I didn't identify which color I want to do that in. I would love to get a text message saying confirming, confirming red or blue. You know what I mean? Like, that would be great.

[00:14:54] Liz Moorehead: So, David, here's what I want to ask you here for a moment, you know, because we're seemingly having a conversation. About what SMS can be and what it should be for marketing and sales organizations using inbound. But then we also have to wrestle with the fact of what is, in some cases, the reason why Devin, our complex man of nuanced emotion.

And quite frankly, me too. I think we've all been on the receiving end of the good, the bad and the ugly. So where do organizations go wrong? How are they thinking about SMS incorrectly? That leads to literally. Not customer delight. It's, it's prospect and buyer repellent. How does that

[00:15:35] David Gable: I I think if I think they get it wrong by thinking it's one of two things either a panacea Meaning all I need to do is sms enough people and they will buy my product Or that it's completely useless and I should abdicate that entire medium and focus only on Calling an email, the two other ways I can ignore people and get them to scare them away from buying my product if not used directly.

You know, so I think those, those, if you find yourself gravitating towards a poll on the issue, I would say you're probably wrong. It's a, it's the same standard I use for politics sometimes. If you find yourself really gravitating really strongly, maybe like I would edge towards the middle a little bit, meaning I think SMS is actually.

The preferred method of communication for most of us, for most of our day. And because it's preferred, we're especially defensive about it. You know what I mean? Like anything valuable to us, Devon's especially, Max's especially, and me too, really defensive about my SMS because I've given up on my inbox long, long ago.

That thing is, uh, it's just filled with slings and arrows from a million different marketers trying to get ahold of me. And so it's almost useless at this point. So I got, I'm okay abdicating email. But please don't do that to my SMS. But however, if it's something that if it's communication that I want, then God, I'd love to have it over SMS.

I mean, for me, if I had to handle all the communication I handle over text, over calls or long form emails, what a pain that would be, you know what I mean? So. Really, it's about, someone in the chat was mentioning C for consent. It really is, I think, looking for indicia of consent, like, or indicia of wanting that communication, indicia meaning just some indicator from that person that this would be a good method of communication for me, and it's not going to usually be direct.

I know we do, don't

[00:17:16] Liz Moorehead: words, new strategies.

[00:17:18] David Gable: and it's fun. Look at these backgrounds and these hats people are wearing. I mean, this is a fun podcast and yet informative at the same time. It's amazing. We're doing both things. You know what I mean? All the things. So, I think looking for indicia and then triggering calls or triggering text messages based off of that.

HubSpot. Is like my favorite platform to build workflow automations in my favorite. And the great thing is we can automate texts either through kickseat or through HubSpot itself that go direct to a person from someone on your team at a time that is convenient for them. So someone you send out an email and the email has a embedded video in it from video to one of these other companies.

And that's. Awesome. You see, they watch the entire video. It goes through all minute and a half on an email. Dude, someone spent 90 seconds watching my video. There's some interest there. That's not a bad time to text them and just say, Hey, what'd you think of the video? And have that text come from me. And you can auto text that right up to your workflow.

And just real, it's a real soft thing. What'd you think of the video? I'm not saying, Hey, buy my product. I saw you watch the video, more text messages. It's not that it's just like, Hey, what'd you think of it? That's great. That's a great way to open up some communication. And it's less intrusive than a direct call.

You know what I mean? So I think to answer your question, like, I think it's for companies. It's about finding indicia of consent or indicia of an invitation. What, what action has this, this potential customer made that means that tells me, hey, there's a soft invitation here to text me and it's probably going to be useful, you know?

[00:18:46] Max Cohen: don't text them. Just don't. Like, that's a good, like, rule of thumb. If they gave it to you, it's one thing, right? But like, let's also remember too, because when you say the indicia, and I always say indicator, which I'm imagining is the same thing here,

[00:19:02] David Gable: is the same thing.

[00:19:03] Max Cohen: somehow saying it, but I like that word so much better. I'm going to

[00:19:06] Liz Moorehead: I feel so fancy when I say inducia.

[00:19:08] David Gable: it sound cool? It sounds fancy. That's why I used it too. Yeah.

[00:19:11] Max Cohen: love it. Um, so the, where I was kind of going with this is like, it's, it's, it's one thing to collect the email. I mean, it's one thing to collect the phone number, but it's also another thing to understand how you're allowed to use it.

Right. So like that could be something as simple as saying a little check box that says it's okay to text me, right? Check it off, have that on because inside a HubSpot for the new SMS tools, right? There's like. You can only send to people that have like a certain property checked or consent checked or something like that.

Right. And so like you could power that property getting switched from that. Right. Um, you know, or it could just be, you know, maybe your, your sales rep asking that first call, Hey, is it okay for me to like text you? Yeah, cool. Check a box. Bump. Good to

[00:19:52] David Gable: 100%.

[00:19:52] Max Cohen: Right. Um, you know, things like that. And like, it's easy, it's easy to ask for that consent.

Right. And you owe, you really want to, because the last thing you want to do. Is get some information from someone and not know how you're allowed to use it and then potentially create like a really bad interaction with them, right? So it's like, it's easier just to figure out if you have the consent or not to do

[00:20:15] David Gable: and as a little, as

[00:20:16] Liz Moorehead: other thing to keep it.

[00:20:17] David Gable: go forward, I was gonna say, as a helpful little nugget too, when you're asking for that consent or like, or assent, you know, I think just saying like mentioning the alternative. So, hey, would you love it? Would you like it to text back as we move through this process? Would you like to do it over text as opposed to me calling you and emailing you when you phrase the alternatives?

You're like, Oh, well, I mean, I definitely don't wanna jump on a phone call. I mean, dude, a phone call is like, someone just show these days a phone call. It's like someone just showing up to your door and being like, Hey, David, I'm here. And it's like, what the hell? I I, I, I'm not ready for a phone call. I can't, I, I don't know how long the call's gonna be.

I don't know what, you know, I, I've got things to do. Oh my God. It's a shocking thing these days to be called. So like, as a, as an alternative to that, I mean, sure. I'd rather you text me than that, you know, like, yeah.

[00:21:01] Liz Moorehead: Well, I think the thing to keep in mind though, David, and at least this is where I'm coming from on it, is that over the past, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 years, it's become easier for consumers to throttle and block ads, right? As we've become more inundated, whether we're talking about television, whether we're talking about.

I remember when folders were introduced in Gmail and all of a sudden all of the emails that us marketers that we're sending got started going to like promotions and started getting buried elsewhere. And so what's fascinating about this is that when it comes to SMS. It's one of the last few places where you can kind of catch somebody off guard.

There is no real filtering. So what I find fascinating about it is like, I'll even catch myself eye rolling. Sometimes when I receive texts from people I opted into. And I think that's one thing marketers need to keep in mind is that I think they treat it sometimes with the same mindset as other channels.

Like if I send an email, I have the expectation of, well, somebody will read that, you know, when they're, when they're ready to read it. But when it comes to texting, that's not the same thing. I think there needs to be a little bit more reverence and kind of purposeful intention around when you're reaching out to people because Texting is jarring.

I mean, now people are like, I don't know if anybody else is like this, but I am perpetually on do not disturb on my own phone. Like, I just got so tired of every app and notification and text that I get. It's just like a constant barrage of stuff. But it, it, I think it's frustrating because texting is one of the last places.

Where we're supposed to be just getting good, happy messages, not junk

[00:22:40] Max Cohen: Mm

[00:22:40] Liz Moorehead: And I think it's starting to feel that way.

[00:22:42] David Gable: You're right. So it's one of those things where you want to make sure these are good, happy messages you're sending out these people. You want to make sure that like there is a real this text message is delivering something of value. In some way to this person, like I am helping. So I'll, I'll, I'll give you an example.

My, you know, I'm the head of sales over at kickseat. And so my guys get on sales calls all the time. We're trying to negotiate these deals across weeks or months. And oftentimes we'll invite someone to a Slack channel or something like that. Why? Like not because we want to get a slack notification all the time from them, but because man, is it easier to coordinate when you have some quick, uh, asynchronous communication, meaning it's synced to my schedule and you can read it within whenever it's at times convenient for you, rather than just.

Me trying to call everybody or doing one of those crazy email threads where someone replies in the middle of the thread and then it surfaces back up that half the thread, but not the rest of the three, you know, like it's great. So texting is in a similar vein. If you're trying to move through a process and you're really trying to solve a problem for a customer, I know sales.

Comes off with a, you know, with a, as a, as a negative thing so often, but like at the end of the day, sales done well, is really helping them solve a problem that they're experiencing. And so if I'm getting help over text message, well, that's not so bad. I mean, if someone texts me saying, Hey, David, I'm happy to help you move.

I'm like, Oh, well, well, well, that's a, that's a text message. I would love to hear. So, and in the same way we've helped moving companies do exactly that, you know, so, um, I think, I

[00:24:10] Max Cohen: Well, I mean, that's good because they're, they're getting value in exchange for the time. They're getting value in exchange for the time it takes for them to interact with the medium. And that's like what makes emails. That's what makes a good email versus a bad email, right? Because like whenever we interact with something on a screen, right?

We're wasting our time in order to see what it is and see if it's value. And if it's not, we hate it. And if it is, we go, I'm fine with the time I just spent doing that. Right. And so the same goes for text messages. Um, but 

[00:24:37] Liz Moorehead: David, you've alluded to a couple so far, what are some great examples that you've seen with your clients in terms of how they, with purpose and intention, integrate SMS into their inbound marketing or sales programs? What does that look

[00:24:51] David Gable: So one of the example gave earlier is a great one. Obviously, that's like really overt in this year, right? Someone comes into a chat, tries to engage, wants a human, can't find a human, leaves, you auto text them back from a human. Amazing. You've saved the day. You're Spider Man with text messaging.

It's, you know what I mean? Great. The great power and responsibility met in one, and you were able to web them and get them back home safely, whatever it is. So like, that's, that's great. That's a great, that's an easy example. Usually they're not so strong. So like, I do want to, I've got, I have so much sympathy now as someone who runs sales teams with salespeople.

And so for those of you who watch the webinar, who are like, yeah, but I, I mean, I want to sell more. I get it. I get it from the consumer standpoint, texting sucks, but it's the one medium that works right now. Like how do I make use of it? Right. And so for those people listening with that question, like I'll get a great example.

So it was COVID we're locked down. I was working with, um, a large pest control company that ends in erminex, and they, um, they, they, they couldn't go door to door anymore, right? And there are all these bug problems that are localized to specific areas. So, a part of Ohio has cicadas everywhere or whatever, right?

And so, they, they can't go door to door and help people. But they would love to, you know, hit people up and let them know, Hey, if this wave of cicadas or whatever, like flows over your home and the pestilence spreads and you would love us to have deal with it, we're happy to help. Right? Well, what they were able to do was they were able to send out emails because again, we want soft initial contact.

We don't want to spam everybody in Ohio or Cincinnati saying, Hey, Cicada problem. Text me here and we're going to create a bunch of Devins everywhere. They just hate, hate this company and never, never want to hear from me. They'll be like, no, you know what? The cicadas aren't the pest. You're the pest for texting me.

Right? So like, we don't want that. So instead, what, what they did was they sent out the email campaign with an embedded video, just like, Hey, if you see this, this kind of bug, a husk, That's, that's an indicia of this kind of bug, we would love to go over and help you to use that word again. And so, when they watch that video, if someone watched it all the way through, not just watched part of it and skipped it, watched it all the way through, then it would trigger a text message saying, Hey, sorry, what did you think of the video?

You know what I mean? If they got a response over text message that wasn't like, do not text me ever again, Great. Then it's like they were going to text back saying, I did see that. I think we have those damn things or whatever. Like I tried to get it for myself. I couldn't great. We'll send someone out over there to help.

And that was a whole day. It became like a nationwide campaign, but they may be very specific. Again, they weren't just sending out a random mass text to everyone in the United States saying, Hey, do you have a pest problem? Like that's the wrong way to do it, but specific to their area. Like, Hey, we noticed that a bunch of silverfish in this area hitting these homes.

You're in the area if you, have you seen this? Here's a video explaining it, and then if they watch the video or reply to the email where workflow automation is triggering the text, that's great. Awesome.

[00:27:38] Max Cohen: That's, that's, that's brilliant actually, because like what they're doing is like they're doing. So, one, very targeted, right? Cause it's like, we know the cicadas are here, right? And I'm pretty sure the, the, the, the, the cicadas are related to the indicias. Dude, nevermind, that was a dumb joke. Anyway. And,

[00:27:56] Liz Moorehead: of indicious, speaking of

[00:27:58] Max Cohen: wait a minute, I was gonna make a point, not just a dumb joke.

So, it's, that's great, but like, the fact that they were thoughtful enough to say, Hey! I'm sorry. We can get them to do this thing, watch this video, and if they skip out on the two seconds, they clearly don't give a shit. Right? But if they watch the whole thing, then we have like a really cool indicator there of like, this might actually be, not just relevant because of where they are, but relevant because of the fact they watched the whole video means they may have seen these things and been going, Oh, shit.

I'm going to actually hear what they have to say, right? Cause if they didn't care, they'd be gone in a second, right? No, one's going to watch a five minute bug video if they aren't seeing those bugs outside,

[00:28:39] David Gable: exactly right.

[00:28:40] Max Cohen: Um, you know, unless you're like my five year old, she loves bugs, but.

[00:28:44] Liz Moorehead: So, Devin, I have a question for you here because you've been You had understandable feelings, but as we've been unpacking

this conversation around indicia and how, how these types of programs can

[00:28:56] Devyn Bellamy: my number one is don't


[00:28:58] Liz Moorehead: Where 

[00:28:59] Devyn Bellamy: if you ever get me on your list. I 

[00:29:01] Liz Moorehead: are the, whether that's you can see the case for it, or you 

[00:29:05] Devyn Bellamy: you

do, who you are. Don't

[00:29:07] Liz Moorehead: just please to not

[00:29:08] Devyn Bellamy: don't. Yeah. Like, um, like, um, like, like I have, I have a burner. Google voice numbers specifically for things that 

[00:29:18] David Gable: Kevin specifically,

[00:29:19] Liz Moorehead: yes, even if he says yes, it's a no.

[00:29:22] David Gable: mean it.

[00:29:23] Max Cohen: Yeah, Devin doesn't actually even have a phone number. He got rid of it just for this. 

[00:29:28] Devyn Bellamy: I I've, I've heard, I knew, um, when I was working, uh, in agency, there was, um, 

[00:29:35] David Gable: Nice. 

[00:29:36] Devyn Bellamy: there was a, uh, a house flipper that was using, uh, SMS to. Um, let people know about houses that were available and, uh, or, uh, in, in, in trying to, uh, even purchase some homes and it worked for him. It was great. Um, and so there, there are. 

[00:29:56] David Gable: you don't have enough of a cicada problem

yet for SMS to be okay. 

You're saying that the spread of locusts, cicada, whatever needs to be much

higher for Devin to be really committed to this


[00:30:07] Liz Moorehead: Until the cicadas are asking for squatters rights. I 

feel like 

[00:30:10] David Gable: He's out. Yeah, he's not. It's not, it's not enough, dude. He'd rather live, live, live in harmony with the skaters. Yeah, 

[00:30:16] Devyn Bellamy: Basically there, there is no, there, there is no cicada level. Cause I I've, I've driven through

cicada country

and there is no like, because at that point I don't need

you to text me. I already call

if it is, if It's that's it. Don't 

text me. Just don't text me. Just don't text


[00:30:34] Liz Moorehead: Yes, I actually, I saw you lean up on that mic. So I was about to say, Max.

do you have some


for Devin? 

[00:30:40] Max Cohen: Can I, Liz, can I interrogate Devin for a 

second? Okay. All right. I want to see where Devin

is on some of these things. 

Okay. So, all right. So, 

um, I'm going to just 

ask you a couple of questions. You 

tell me if you're okay with it or not. If you 

were like in the sales process, let's say you had a conversation with a sales rep.

It's a product 

you're like seriously consider 

buying, but it's a complex sales cycle. 

Are you okay texting with the sales rep? No. 

Okay. All right. 



that's just you. No, no, no. I know. I know. 

[00:31:10] Devyn Bellamy: but 

[00:31:10] Max Cohen: Yeah, yeah. You don't

like Yeah, you only 

[00:31:13] Devyn Bellamy: I don't don't 

[00:31:13] Max Cohen: those that 

you're close with. 

[00:31:15] Devyn Bellamy: We aren't that close 

[00:31:16] Max Cohen: So, like, what if it's like So, even like with convenience stuff.

So, let's say you're I think 

we mentioned AAA before. Right? You're, you're, you're stuck on the side of the highway and the the truck gets assigned to you and they're on their way out and you 

get a text. Is 

that cool? 




[00:31:35] Devyn Bellamy: yeah, transactional. Absolutely. Like my Walmart delivery is almost 

[00:31:38] Max Cohen: that are convenient texts that are like hyper specific to something you just did using transactional.

That makes a lot of sense, right? So if you just bought something, right? And it has to do with what you bought or requested

or something like that

You're okay with text automations that are simple


right? Just keeping you in the

loop. Which is very different than a conversation with a sales rep. Which is also very



a, Hey, you don't know 

us, but we're trying to sell 

you something. Right? Like those are, I'm trying to Like form the 

categories you're okay with. And the ones that you're

not. Yeah. 

[00:32:15] David Gable: yeah, 

[00:32:19] Devyn Bellamy: Text message is telling me that what I asked for is on the way and that's it Like don't even 

ask me for feedback. Just tell 

me that like Okay,

you, you, you got the delivery from Walmart. This person just started 

shopping. Okay, this person just, substituted something. This person just dropped, is on their way to drop it off.

This person just 

[00:32:39] Liz Moorehead: Interestingly enough, Chad in the chat, he just, he brought up a very similar scenario in which how his company uses it. He says, another thing we do is inspections on route SMS texts from the sales reps number. We use a system that has a live tracking link and it sends a bio that is about the rep, their image and the link.

Then they can follow along with the rep and call the number back to get a hold of that specific. Uh, on the way to do the inspection, which I think is a really neat thing. And I, I like what you're talking about there, Max, about the categories of it. I think there's a very big difference between solicitation on like unsolicited solicitation, right.

And something that has to do with the completion of a transaction or, or a service or however it's being rendered. Um, What would you say? So I want to take a moment here before we run out of time to talk a bit about technology. So obviously Kixi, which is this particular platform, 


has the capability to integrate with CRMs like HubSpot.

So, David, can you talk to us a bit about the technology piece? What does that look like in terms of integrating those 2 types of that app and HubSpot together? And Max, I know you'll have thoughts about this as well. Don't you worry about that. 

[00:33:57] David Gable: technology technology here. I've heard of technology. I've heard of it. I, um, I, in fact, chat with 

Chad was. 

Yeah. In fact, Chad was mentioning in, in chat, another thing to links in perfectly. He was talking about technology. He was saying, when I get a text message, what I would love is for it to be human on the other 

side of it.

And so you asked for a second, like what side of the technology, I think one of the things that we really provide value on 

as an add on to kick to HubSpot, we integrate directly with HubSpot is you can trigger a text message, not from a general marketing email or sorry, text phone number, you know, associated with the company, but a text message from an individual rep that way.

And that way it can be part of a deal. It's already moving forward. You're already in progression. You've already moved through certain stages and maybe you're trying to buy a car or something like that. And all of a sudden they got the car washed and they don't rather than using the stock images that you've been seeing on the initial website.

When you were browsing perusing the car, they auto text you the brand new, newly washed car photos where it's gotten back the inside. You can see everything and. That's cool. Like that's that's a good use of text messaging. You're already through far along in the process. You've been approved for an auto loan.

You're shopping around that you knew already expressed interest in that particular car. And now you're getting an auto text. It's an MMS with individual photos of the car from the actual rep who you've been dealing with around the purchase. Like that's that's great. That's that's a very different experience and probably one more in line with what Chad wants.

But again, we're using stuff that sounds really scary. We're using it. We're using text messaging. We're using it as part of a sales process and we're using automated text messaging. If you only told me those three things about it, I'd be like, hell no. I would sound a lot like Devin. I'd be like, no, no, no, I don't want any of that.

But when you put it in context like that, you're like, oh, actually that's kind of cool. I would, I would like to have some MMS of like real photos and not these cheesy stock photos that were on the website when I first looked at the car, like that's sick. So I think making sure that you're using tech, you can use technology in a way that makes it feel More human and facilitate human to human communication, even if it's automated, which is kind of, you know, it's kind 

of a, you know, uh, an odd mix, you wouldn't expect that it's a result that you wouldn't expect 

from an automation. 

[00:36:04] Max Cohen: Yeah. Is, uh, David, is Kixie like Does Kixie more so focus on that facilitating texting conversations between humans at your company and your, and your customers, or does it also 

have the element of where like, brands are more so like you're getting a text from the brand versus like the, uh, you 

[00:36:24] David Gable: you could use us to send a text from brand where we really 

shine is text and calls can be do 

calling to 

that's event based. And the event 

based, we're not, I'm not meaning so much 

like July 4th. I mean, like someone opened the email, watch the embedded video. We're going to reply to the email and say, yeah, I'd love to jump on a call.

And then you get an auto text saying, Hey, what time works for you? I'm free these days, these hours, these days. Okay. That's very different. That's kind of cool. Like, but even again, even though it's automated. Even though it's an automated reply base, but it's based off of the event of the person interacting.

So I think for a lot of the calling and texting I see, and I see this all the time. So someone sets up a sequence and sequences are so cool, right? You see them in HubSpot, you see them in other places like sales ops and sales force and like sequence, like call on day one, email on day two, call on day four, email on day 10.

And that's great. Right? Like for a sales rep, that's great for recipient. You're like, well, look. There's no particular reason you're calling me on Thursday at 2 p. m. in the afternoon on day four apart from it's convenient for your schedule as a sales rep. But me as a recipient, like, I'm doing stuff, man. I don't want a random text or call at 2 p.

  1. on a Thursday. That's not, that doesn't fit my schedule. But again, so again, what we're looking for is we're looking for an event. So you send out the email or maybe make the call on day one. And then we have triggers where we've sent out little pieces of bait, the email, the embedded video, maybe they visit your website.

Maybe they engage with your chat bot, like all this data flowing into HubSpot. And what people typically do with all that data flowing in is they call them a day four on Thursday at 2 PM in the afternoon, and then send them an auto text because it's in their sequence. It's like, why are you doing that?

You all this data coming in, you know, when they're free, you know, when they're reading your emails, you know, when they're engaging with the chat bot, like it's a little creepy, but at least it's convenient to their schedule. And at least it's, it's solicited in the sense that they're doing some action that lets you know, they're actually interested in the product.

That you're trying to talk to them about. I think that's a much better way to use technology to facilitate human to human communication, like Chad wanted. As opposed to, 

like, scaring people off from ever wanting to talk to you

ever again, and just replying, 

no, stop texting me on their phone. You know?

[00:38:30] Max Cohen: yeah, yeah. And then you guys also have, um, just like from a technology piece of it, I remember, I don't know if I'm getting the name right, but you have these like, I don't, I don't, I think call HubSpot, 

but you have this feature where it's like, if someone fills out a form, you can literally get them into like, Like it, it, it basically auto calls them from, or I can't remember exactly how it works, but like it 

basically triggers one of your reps to call them and like puts them in a queue to 

[00:38:57] David Gable: exactly. Right. Someone fills out a form on your 


All of a 

sudden, a sales rep on your 

team, boom, they get a pop up form. Phil, do you want to make 

a call to 

this person? They click 

accept. They're automatically calling them. They don't pick up. You can drop an automatic voicemail. And then maybe you send them a text and say, 

Hey, I dropped you an automatic voicemail.

I won't text you again unless you want me to, but let me know a good time to call you again. Now I'm texting them to find a good time to communicate with them. Yeah. That's great. Now, again, I'm texting them just in a way to get permission and to get some information from them. So again, I don't want to be a spammy salesperson.

At the end of the day, I want to talk to you. And if you sell me, no, I want to go away and remove you from my list and never buggy again, you know, that, that's the, that's the ultimate goal here, not to just annoy people with my brand, you know, so I think the incentives can be aligned between 

the person and the brand.

It's just making sure we use the information available to us to be smart 

about it, you know.

[00:39:53] Max Cohen: Yeah, do y'all ever recommend that people and this is more like a strategy thing like, uh, and kind of going back to the in, I can't even say indicia thing, right? 

Would you encourage folks who when they see 


unsubscribes from their email? 

[00:40:08] David Gable: Oh, God. Yes. 

[00:40:09] Max Cohen: indicator 

that like, you 


[00:40:11] David Gable: Yes. God. Yes. 

[00:40:12] Max Cohen: Is 

that something you 

guys have 

experimented with or looked at? Okay, got it. So 

it's one of those things like, Hey, 


Safe to say, if they don't want 


[00:40:20] David Gable: we're looking for event based. So, like, I think this is true for a lot of sales processes. A lot of automation gets used incorrectly. We saw, we see automation come in and we're like, Ooh, I can 

automate. Everything. It's like, Whoa, okay, 

before we start automating everything, let's think about what the triggers for these automations are and the automation should work in both directions.

They should both get people further along in the sales process and, and encourage us to auto call or auto text. It should also do the opposite. Which is they were giving me indicia that they do not want to be a part of this process anymore, that I extricate them, as another word, from all the other communication, the various channels I'm hitting them up in.

Let's pull back on that. And that, that's true for not even, I'm just a little bit of a tangent. That's true for marketing spend as well. I see a lot of times. People unsubscribe from emails and stuff. And that was still your ad spend for LinkedIn sales ads. You know, your LinkedIn ads are still targeting that person.

It's like, Whoa, what are you doing? Pull back from everything. Stop bugging them about Kixi or whatever it is. Like, they're not interested. Save yourself that marketing spend and put it towards someone who might actually be interested. Like let's unenroll people from 

[00:41:26] Liz Moorehead: So as we wrap up this conversation, I'd love to hear from all of you and Max, I actually 

want to start with you this time. I would love to hear from you all on what 



like to see brands challenge themselves 

to do in 

2024 when it comes to SMS and their marketing and sales programs. Devin, I'm predicting that your answer may be 

don't, but you know, I'm going to leave room for you to prove me wrong, but we're going to start with 


Do not. Do not. 

[00:41:59] Max Cohen: Yeah, first, don't don't you dare text Devin is the one thing that I'm going to tell everybody to Do Don't don't because you know what, you know what, you'll end up on a podcast that you weren't even invited to. 

So yeah, that's what's gonna happen. So the just in that he'll he'll he'll probably 

start a segment at the beginning where he goes this is a list of the companies that texted me this week and it will be an ongoing segment.

[00:42:25] David Gable: It's not a bad idea, Actually, 

It's a clever 

[00:42:27] Max Cohen: you better do that, Devin. We should start doing that right away and 

putting them on blast. Yeah. Yeah. 

Um, Devin's SMS shit list. Yeah. 

Um, I, I, so, so here's, here's what I would recommend and I'm going to, I'm going to say, I'm going to say maybe I'm going to, I'm going to focus a little bit on, on companies that, that do rely on repeat business, right?

Um, specifically e commerce companies out there, there are two particular brands that I really love. One's called melon. They make hats and another one's called one bone, which makes clothes for guys that are my size, right? Um, these guys do a really, really great job at sending. Not SMS, but MMS, which is like SMS is just plain text.

MMS is where you can get like emojis, files, pictures, like all these other things. Right. Um, What they've done is they've clearly kind of figured out that I like to buy stuff from them because and and that is that is very interesting because most of the time a goal or a challenge of your customer It's not to buy things from you, especially if they've never bought anything from you in the past however, if you've seen somebody buy something from you multiple times There's a good chance that a goal of theirs can sometimes be to buy more stuff from you because they've clearly done it multiple times.

It's gonna be way more, uh, likely that that is somewhat, even if it's a small one, at least a bit of an iota of a, uh, a goal or a challenge that someone has, right? Um, you know, and for those people, I'd say if there's any time that it's okay to send the Hey, here's a here's a great deal on, you know, 20 percent off of like, whatever it's to the people who buy from you regularly, right?

There's there's so I think one, my thing there is Take those messages that you're sending just to everybody because you're basically saying, I want everyone to buy from me, right? So I'm going to send everybody these coupons and these, these friggin, you know, 20 percent off like, you know, there's a sale going on thing.

Don't send them to anybody. Send them to the people that buy from you regularly and stop annoying the people that don't because you're just do you're just doing negative stuff to these, the margins of folks that don't care about that, right? When you could just be focusing on the people that actually care, right?

Because I'm assuming You know, the more people that report your text to spam, or I don't know if that's even a thing, um, or like saying stop or like reporting you for like abuse or like whatever it may be, you want to avoid that as much as possible and really kind of, you know, isolate the, the, the, these, these sort of like super bottom of the funnel, like test text message messages to the folks who have actually indicated like buying from you is something I do regularly, right.

Um, and just make sure it's used in the right spot. But I would also. Think too that how can you think of like new products that you have as like new content, right? So a really cool thing that these companies do that I enjoy getting texted from let me actually I'll find melon here and I'll put it up on the screen.

So melon So these guys, I can barely see it on the screen here. I don't really know every single time they send me a text. They only send me, well, of course it was the holiday. So they, they were a little bit crazier on like the coupon stuff, right? But they only text me. When there's like a brand new, like drop, like a brand new hat, like something that I haven't seen before.

So it's like net new content to me. And they always deliver it with like a really beautiful, stunning image, which is not something that you're used to seeing in the text message. Right. Especially any kind of marketing text message. It's usually always like, say 50 percent off hits to a Texas back. Stop to not get this.

And no one likes that. Right. So it's like for those folks that really like to buy something for you. If you are going to send a text, what are the little things you can do to make that text a little bit more interesting, right? If it is one of those very bottom of the funnel, buy some stuff again from us text, it's all the little stuff you can do in there to make it better.

But the most important thing you could do is really make sure you're isolating a segment of your audience that buying stuff from you is 

actually an interest they have. Right? And, you know, until you've seen someone do it multiple times, you can't say buying from you is something that they're genuinely interested in.

Right? So, yeah. Look for that 

[00:46:55] David Gable: yeah, I would say I know we're short on time, but I'd leave you with like three compound words like event based, event based, event based, like for if you're doing outbound and you're in sales, then you want to be triggering these text messages to as a part of the sales process once it's already kind of been initiated or because it's been, to use that word again, some major indicia that they would like to receive a text or they would be convenient way.

to communicate given the interest they've, you know, expressed in whatever it is that you're trying to sell to them. Whether that's email opens, email replies, um, watching embedded videos till completion, stuff like that. We're going to gather that, visiting your website, engaging with your chatbot, start cobbling together those, some if and statements in a HubSpot workflow and boom, you're off to the races.

You can do a great job at facilitating. communication, not just from a primary marketing number from an individual rep on your side. So again, you have a human to human communication. The other thing I'll say, like this is kind of a unsung hero. I think oftentimes support teams, I support is a, is a rough business to be in, but that's a business where people want to talk to somebody.

In fact, Well, people don't want us to deal with a lengthy IVR. So if you see someone trying to call into support, maybe you miss their call. Like this could be true for salespeople. I have this set up. You call me and I miss your call. Um, my Kixie phone number, it auto texts you back to saying, Hey, I'm stuck on another call right now.

We're on a webinar with hub heroes. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Here's my Calendly link to schedule time to talk to me. Otherwise I'm going to, I'm going to text you right back. And I see the text message that came out from me to them on my Kixie dialer and like, It's great. It's great for everybody.

I, it's giving it for me because I'm stuck on doing something else, but I want to reply and it's great for them because they got a response from me, a human who they want to talk to because they were calling me support. It's a great use case for that. Someone comes into a call queue. Maybe they get stuck in an IVR situation and then they leave.

They would love a text from an actual human saying, Hey, this is Sarah. I'd love to talk to you. I noticed you dropped out of the hold. I hate being on hold too. You know what I mean? Like that's perfect, right? You save the day. So I think knowing when to use it based off of events is key. And luckily, if you're on HubSpot, you made an amazing decision, like because you picked a CRM that has so many points of entry for data that you have lots of data at your disposal to look for these events to 

[00:49:13] Liz Moorehead: My big thing from the perspective of a consumer who has a love hate relationship with the texts that I get from brands is I would encourage brands, and this, I think this is true of any channel, but it's especially true of SMS, do not treat it like every other channel, do not make assumptions on what people want from you.

Like people will have. a, a much greater threshold for marketing stuff from you in your email versus your text. So everything you should be doing should be done with intention. You should be double, triple opting in people to make sure that that is what they really. What it is a space in which you may feel like, oh, it's the same message that we're sending out over email and we're sending out over other channels that we're just, you know, to use the word that Max didn't like from earlier, you know, blasting people into space with all of the coupons and all of the things you're turning them off.

More people are going to have a much more adverse reaction to your brand if you continue

to do that, 

um, so just being really purposeful and intentional


and I can't believe it's taken us this long to say it the humans. The hoomans, the hoomans on the other end, the hoomans like Devin. Devin, do you have a message that you want 


leave the world 


[00:50:33] Max Cohen: Mm.

[00:50:34] Liz Moorehead: as a



[00:50:38] Devyn Bellamy: not going to continue beating the dead horse. 

[00:50:40] David Gable: Yeah,

[00:50:42] Devyn Bellamy: text me. But, um, 

[00:50:46] Liz Moorehead: was beautiful. 

[00:50:47] Devyn Bellamy: the 

[00:50:50] David Gable: we were so close. I thought we had him 


Max, Max for a second there. I thought we had him. I thought he was finally 

going to 

consent. He's not He's sticking by his guns. I 


[00:50:59] Max Cohen: Hey,


[00:51:00] Devyn Bellamy: Yeah, for my 50

[00:51:01] Max Cohen: if If 

it's Yo, 

here's the thing DoorDash. It's okay 

if DoorDash

[00:51:05] Devyn Bellamy: the thing is, is that if 

you're going 

[00:51:07] Max Cohen: know, literally anyone else.


[00:51:11] Devyn Bellamy: on delight, focus on. Um, making people better off for the interaction. Don't think about you and what you want to get out of the interaction. Think about what the other person is going to get out of the interaction and whether or not, um, what you are.

What you're doing, how you're engaging with this person is going to is, is worth the SMS. Think, think of it almost as, as currency is what you're giving them worth the intrusion. And if the answer is no, then maybe you don't need to message them. 

[00:51:46] Max Cohen: Just say, is this helpful before you send it? And if you can't seriously in your heart without having a conversation with the person who really, really wants 

you to send it? next to you, you can't say yes, just don't, 

[00:51:57] Liz Moorehead: do it. 

[00:51:58] Max Cohen: don't do it 

[00:51:59] Liz Moorehead: Well, David, thank you,

so much for joining us this week on Hub Heroes. How can people learn more about Kixie? Yeah, 

of course.

[00:52:08] David Gable: dude, thank, thank you so much for having 



it's good. I, I mean, you can visit our website, but hey, if you wanna be direct, we, we actually have an email for anyone who's watched the podcast or met us at Inbound. It's literally 

HubSpot at Kie. We're a, uh, diamond, platinum partner. We're a 



Are they right now with, uh, with 


and, um. Anyone who emails that, like, we will roll up the red carpet for you. We have sales engineers specifically dedicated to HubSpot, HubSpot reps, and anyone who emails HubSpot at Kixi. com, and they'll jump on calls with you. We'll give you free trials of Kixi.

You can set it up, use it for a month, play around with it, see if there's features you like, features you don't like. More than that, we can just teach you how to use event based automations in HubSpot. Do you email us? We'll teach you how to use them, whether you use Kixi or not. That's just like a part of what we do.

It's, it's why we're considered a platinum partner, even though we don't actually charge for, for implementation services like a typical partner does. Um, because it's part of our give back to the community kind of ethos. So email that email us there HubSpot at Kixi. com. You heard us about us on the webinar.

We'd love to set you up with a trial, help you out, answer any questions you 

have. Devin, if you could, if you email us at HubSpot at Kixi, we will try and convince you to allow us to text you. 


[00:53:19] Liz Moorehead: You might have to do it via smoke signal at this 


[00:53:22] Max Cohen: Yeah. 

[00:53:23] David Gable: Hahaha! It's gonna be a long 

back and 

[00:53:25] Liz Moorehead: So wait, I was about to ask Devin, are you in or out 

on carrier 


[00:53:29] David Gable: Yeah. Hahaha! Abstract, Abstract, 

dance. Yeah. 

[00:53:33] Devyn Bellamy: Birds are

[00:53:34] Max Cohen: Yeah. 

[00:53:35] David Gable: about


dance? Can we do that? Because there's some 


[00:53:42] Max Cohen: speak 

[00:53:42] Devyn Bellamy: long as you aren't doing it in my 

[00:53:44] Liz Moorehead: What about a falcon? What about a falcon wearing a little 

cap carrying a little scroll that says the 

cicadas are coming? 

[00:53:51] David Gable: Ooh! 

[00:53:51] Devyn Bellamy: Well, can we just go