What is the HubSpot Apps Marketplace? (HubHeroes, Ep. 31)

Hoo boy, buckle up, folks! This is a jam-packed episode, and I don't say that lightly. Yes, the meat of the episode is an in-depth discussion about the woefully under-appreciated HubSpot Apps Marketplace ... 

... and I'll get to that in the moment. 

But we started this week's episode with the big news that, after seven incredible years, fellow HubHero Max Cohen has hung up his HubSpot blazer and has started a new adventure as the chief evangelist at Hapily, which helps organizations build native HubSpot apps, rather than being stuck with patch-worked integrations! 

We're so excited for Max, and don't worry! He's not hanging up his HubHeroes cape, podcast listeners.

His new role, however, provided some seriously beautiful context to our conversation of the day — what the heck is the HubSpot Apps Marketplace? We ask this question because, well ... let me ask you all something:

How many of you have ever looked at the HubSpot Apps Marketplace? How many of you are using natively integrated HubSpot apps right now within your portal? I'd wager, not too many of you! That's why we are dedicating a whole episode to the topic, so you can find smart, new ways to level-up your HubSpot investment.

Here's what we cover in this episode ...

• What led to Max's new adventure at Hapily, and what is he most excited about?
• What was the most impactful or surprising lesson Max learned about the industry during his time at HubSpot?
• What was the most impactful or surprising lesson Max learned about himself during his time at HubSpot?
• What is the HubSpot Apps Marketplace really?
• What do most folks completely misunderstand about HubSpot Apps Marketplace?
• What's the difference between a HubSpot app and a HubSpot integration?
• What is the best way to determine what apps you should or shouldn't consider for your organization's HubSpot portal?
• What are some of our favorite HubSpot apps?
• Who is the worst shopping offender? Men? Women? Liz? George? George's family? Liz's husband? 

And that's only the beginning ... 

RESOURCES FOR THIS EPISODE

• Why HubSpot? Why inbound?
• HubSpot custom properties, objects, and groups 101
• Why go HubSpot Sales Hub? with Kyle Jepsen (HubHeroes Podcast)
• Why go HubSpot Marketing Hub? (HubHeroes Podcast)
• Why go HubSpot Service Hub?
• What is HubSpot Operations Hub?
• What is the HubSpot CMS Hub, and how does it work?
• Do you need an in-house HubSpot Super Admin?

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed apartments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Are you held captive by the evil menace, Lord Lack? Lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt, knowledge.

Never fear hub heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the league of extraordinary inbound heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute. Hub heroes, it's time to unite and activate your powers. Before we begin, we need to disclose that both Devin and Matt

George B. Thomas: No. Nope. Stop it right there, DJ. That record needs replaced. That's right.

Something has changed, and, man, we're gonna have to get a new podcast intro in place before the next time we record. Max. Max. I wanna give you time here at the beginning of this to share with the Hub Heroes audience the fact that you don't love no. I'm just kidding.

You do. You still love. You still love.

Liz Moorehead: His thunder. Let him go. Yeah. And, also, he does this, George, I don't know if you're his feeling at all.

Max Cohen: Listen. Listen. You're feeling emotional a lot.

George B. Thomas: Listen. I brought my tissue box. I brought my tissue box, but, Max, why don't you explain to the the Hub Heroes listeners? What in the what in the world is going on?

Max Cohen: After 7 years and 4 fantastical months at HubSpot, I have left the company, and I have joined this awesome company called Happily, which is firmly embedded in the HubSpot universe. So I am not leaving this community by any means. In fact, I feel still I still feel like I work at HubSpot. Interesting. You know, they're HubSpot invested in Happily and Happily is paying my paycheck.

So kind of, like, in a weird way, I'm still working for HubSpot. But it's it's really cool. I get to work with everybody in this community that I've built such awesome relationships with. I get to work with all my friends back at HubSpot a whole bunch, telling them about all the cool apps that Happily is making and things like that. But my role at Happily is going to be the chief evangelist.

Not is going to be, it is. This is my I'm I'm a weekend at this

George B. Thomas: point. Buddy.

Max Cohen: And I absolutely love it. It's super fun. If you don't know what Happily is, Happily is a company that builds apps on HubSpot. Right? So I think, traditionally, when you go and look at the HubSpot app marketplace, you see a lot of integrations with other pieces of software, and Apply does build integrations.

Specifically, one with, Stripe called Zebra, which is one of our flagship products. But they also make a lot of these really cool utility apps that just add functionality to HubSpot. I'm sure we're gonna talk about that a little bit more later on. But, yeah, my role there is creating a whole bunch of content, getting people super stoked and excited about using Happily Apps. But also a huge part of my role is engaging with partners.

So if you are a HubSpot partner and you're listening to this podcast, you need to book time with me and Dax so we can tell you all about our Grow Happily, partner program, which, George, I know you just became a, a card carrying member of as well. So

George B. Thomas: I have my card.

Max Cohen: Stoked to yeah. Super stoked to partner with Beyond Finance.

George B. Thomas: 0 dues, and they let me in, which is amazing. And then It's great.

Max Cohen: And then we're just gonna pay you when you use

George B. Thomas: our app. I like that. It's I like that being paid.

Max Cohen: But, yeah, I'm super stoked. I'm working with, Connor, Dax, Tyrone. You know, these guys have been, like, building in the HubSpot ecosystem for a really long time now, and now Happily is kind of the So it's it's really bittersweet being hub like, leaving HubSpot, but I still feel very connected to HubSpot, and I'm gonna keep being the goofy HubSpot troll that I've kind of built a brand around being. Troll. Yeah.

Yeah.

George B. Thomas: Wrong word. Wrong. Not a troll. But it's funny because best

Max Cohen: kind of troll you can imagine. You know what I mean?

George B. Thomas: It's funny, Max. I'm gonna get this right out of the way because you know me.

Intro: I'm all about

Liz Moorehead: the The humans.

George B. Thomas: Oh, gosh. And you, Max, you actually are

Intro: a A human.

George B. Thomas: And so I wanna dive a little bit deeper into this you you you just flew by it. A 7 year, you know, like, journey that you've been on. Yeah. And so I, you know, obviously, we are gonna get into talking about app ecosystem, HubSpot apps. Kill my thunder.

Well

Liz Moorehead: I've been seeing that part.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Moorehead: You are.

George B. Thomas: You are.

Liz Moorehead: You are. I just

George B. Thomas: I wanna I wanna foreshadow for the listeners. We're gonna get to some valuable stuff even though I feel like what we're about to do is gonna be uber valuable to a ton of people as well. Because, Max, I wanna take time, and I wanna I wanna I wanna diagnose some of the journey. Right? Like Yeah.

Where where you started, you know, where you got to, because we we just shared where where you are now and where you're going, but I'm super curious. Like, what's the most important or surprising that Max Cohen learned about inbound and the industry while at HubSpot.

Max Cohen: That one's super interesting. I think I learned a lot about that during my first sort of role at HubSpot when I was an implementation specialist. And, you know, I spent the first, like, 3 years of my HubSpot life, if you will, helping onboard new customers. And back then when it was, like, primarily a marketing product, you know, we were sort of part technical, help you set it up and get it going, and get you activated on the product. But then that was, like, the first, like, week or so.

And then we had to be, like, inbound marketing consultants for, like, the rest of the 3 months we were working together with those customers. And it was so interesting because I saw so many different ways that people operated, businesses operated, the way people thought about how you should be running a business and what you shouldn't be doing. I learned a lot about what you shouldn't be doing. But I also, like, I don't really think, like, I fully had kind of understood the impact that an inbound strategy could have on a business prior to actually coming and and seeing it happen. Because that's where my sort of, like, fire under my ass about all this stuff happened is when I would, you know, help people set this tool up, but then more so get them to, like, change their mindset into the way they thought about marketing and got away from, like, oh, let's just send as many direct mailers or try to get a TV spot here or do, like, an ad in a magazine or just try to interrupt people or just email blast the shit out of people.

And when they change their mindset into, like, let's think about how we could be like educators through our content and actually teach people stuff and think about what someone's actually searching for and what would actually be valuable. Like, when I was able to get people to, like, change that mindset and actually adopt this way of marketing that they just weren't really kind of familiar with, because it's, you know, it's a little bit nuanced, right, to think about marketing in that way, and not everyone naturally thinks about it that way. They think about the way they've been advertised to. When I started to see people actually be very successful with it, you know, I think that the the thing the lesson that it taught me is that, like, there's always a better way to do something. There's a better way to market.

There's a better way to to treat your customers. There's a better way to think about how you make money as a business. And it's not just what you think it is, which is what we've all experienced up until the inbound light, if you will. So I think, like, the big thing is just, like, inbound's a powerful thing when you do it right. And you can either choose to do it right or you can choose to kinda keep doing the thing.

Like, it really kind of you know, it it is what you put into it, I think, is also, like, a big lesson that I learned just about inbound in general. The the the strategy and the software, like HubSpot, is only gonna be as good as the effort that you actually put into deploying it and doing it correctly and using it. So, yeah, a couple weird little lessons in there. But

George B. Thomas: Which which ties back really good to, like, a previous episode of the importance of educating yourself and HubSpot Academy. But but I wanna dig in a little bit deeper. Right? I'm I'm gonna see if I can actually maybe make you cry before this

Liz Moorehead: is all feeling.

Max Cohen: Yeah.

George B. Thomas: Feeling. Let's let's let's let's see if Max we can make Max cry. That's the goal for this first part.

Max Cohen: Probably gonna.

George B. Thomas: So the the most important or surprising lesson that you learned about yourself, mister Max Cohen, you're like, oh, oh, crap. Yeah.

Max Cohen: He don't worry. He cried.

Liz Moorehead: Do you like, by the way, that we're, like, have a feeling? Burn. Burn. Yeah. I mean, we love you.

We support you.

George B. Thomas: You got this, buddy.

Max Cohen: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, I I I and I I I think I still struggle with this too. I mean, I'm in therapy. Right?

Wrong. But if you're not in therapy, you should be in therapy. But I think in my 7 years here, something that I came to truly believe that I never thought I would believe in my entire life is that I could actually have an impact on other people. I made that post. I made a couple I mean, I I was pretty loud about the fact that I was leaving HubSpot on LinkedIn.

And I had made that, you know, long sappy post where I was, like, thanking HubSpot for, like, everything, like, it did for me. It was around, like, a 130, a 140 sort of, like, really nice comments on there from past customers, colleagues, new hires that I trained, partners, and and, like, people telling me, like, how I actually, like, made a difference in their career even if it was just a a little bit. You know? I had I had people slacking me that week, telling me, like, hey, I should've reached out to you before, but, like, you were the reason I joined HubSpot. Like, your content is what made me find HubSpot for the first time and get, like, super stoked about, like, actually applying.

And I had no idea. You know what I mean? And, like, seeing that stuff, especially being someone who's, like, had that little voice in the back of your head of just, like, you don't matter. Nothing you do matters and and everything you say is wrong. And, like, you know, we all know what that little voice sounds like.

I think knowing that I was able to actually, like, have an impact on some people was was really cool. And it did a lot for my self confidence to, like, have confirmation of that. Because, again, I struggle with self worth. I struggle with, you know, impostor syndrome, like, 247. Right?

And it's just cool to see that I I had a little bit of an impact there. You know?

George B. Thomas: I I love this because you're saying I had a little bit of an impact. Dude, you've had a massive impact. And what I love is that you're actually getting to see kind of the it's hard to see a brand inside of another brand, but as you move from 1, right, HubSpot to Happily, you get this glimpse of, like, what your brand is kind of built into, who you as a human have been showing up as and and how people appreciate that. And so the fact that your thing was like, I realized I'm putting a dent in the universe excites the hell out of me because now I know that's fuel to what you will do moving forward. And the the dent the massive dent that you're gonna make moving forward, with that newfound, hey.

This is the brand. This is the self belief. And the fact that you're working on, like, dude, you're the shiz. You need to realize you're the shiz. Like, anyway, Liz, I know you got, like, a little emotional with the the thing.

Anything there?

Liz Moorehead: You know, Max, it's so funny to hear you say that because I literally stalked your ass on TikTok for, like, months before I even knew that we were doing this together. I was like, he's so funny, and I like what he teaches and he just felt great and he felt awesome. So it's I think that's always funny though. Right? Like how many of us feel so comfortable when we're serving other people, but the moment we have to serve ourselves by showing us just No.

May showing ourselves maybe like one ounce of kindness, one ounce Yeah. Of attention, one ounce of maybe I'm not a total failure. We just like Yeah. We just like call Impossible. Like a how like, it's impossible.

And so, you know, Max, when I think about, you know, your story, I really wanna talk more about myself because I'm an only child and I like affirmation and attention more than breathing. So I speak for everyone when I say, does this mean you are leaving the podcast? No. Of course they do. Now, Joy.

Max Cohen: Yeah. Oh, okay. If I hadn't made that abundantly clear, obviously not. I would

Liz Moorehead: just say it because I'm like the child going, uh-huh. So I get Santa isn't real. Am I still getting presents? We haven't covered the

George B. Thomas: presents yet. There's no kids in the room and they're list, like, hopefully people haven't had the phones on.

Liz Moorehead: You know what? If there are

George B. Thomas: kids because we just destroyed the lives on the hub heroes podcast.

Liz Moorehead: Channel lives inside of all of us, and it's creepy. How about that? There we go. So then number 2, producer question. Does this now mean we're gonna have 2 safe harbor statements at the beginning of our show going forward?

No. Just the one?

George B. Thomas: No. Just just yeah. One. Awesome.

Liz Moorehead: What well, yeah.

George B. Thomas: So for sure. So here, one more. I have one more, then we're gonna get into apps, and we're gonna

Liz Moorehead: dig it a little bit. I had a question for him.

George B. Thomas: Oh, okay. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Liz Moorehead: So we've sat here and talked about all of your time at HubSpot. What are you most excited about with Happily? You already gave us the rundown, the elevator pitch, the thing, the what, the why, the how. But what makes you, Max Cohen, mayor of, closed one city as your hat that you're wearing right now displays

George B. Thomas: your property? Maybe.

Liz Moorehead: Why are you so excited?

Max Cohen: And let's let's also just, like, throw this in here. Not only will I still be on the podcast, but I'm still selling hats. So if anyone wants to pick up either a rev ops god or close 1 city or rev ops anything or just presales hat, whatever it is, shop.maxjiggkkohen.com, baby. So Still selling them. What am I most excited about?

It's you know? Well, 1, I've been telling people for a long time, apps being built on HubSpot is what excites me most about the future of the app marketplace and the future of HubSpot, really. Right? Because if you think about what made the iPhone the iPhone, it was the apps that were built on it. And I think a similar thing is probably gonna happen for HubSpot.

I've heard a lot of people, like, frame it up that way. Right? I remember hearing Andy Petrie say it once, and I was like, man, you're right. That is like the that that that is what's gonna kinda take HubSpot to the next level. Because it's really great in a lot of ways.

Right? And we'll we'll we'll talk about why it's great later. What am I personally excited about? I mean, I've lived in very safe structured corporate environments my entire life. Right?

Before I was working at HubSpot, I spent 4 years doing business sales at Apple. And before that, I was at the YMCA as a camp counselor. Right? So, like, you know, YMCA and Apple are very different, but they're both very well yeah. I was a camp counselor.

I was a lifeguard instructor with this. I don't know. Yeah. I was a oh, KIPP, camp counselor, kids fun night, childcare stuff. I mean, I I worked with kids.

I thought I wanted to be a teacher. But in some ways, I kinda ended up being 1. Anyway Yes. I kind of I did for a while. I was the instructor on the l and d team for a bit.

Yep. But Yep. What I'm super stoked of is, like, I've only worked in these very well established, regulated sort of environment. Right? Whether it was the y, Apple, or HubSpot.

I've never been an at, like, a startup. I've never been somewhere where it's not, like, everything's fully established and, like, ingrained in stone. I got to, like, use HubSpot and, like, build stuff on HubSpot that was actually gonna be real for the first time this week. You know what I mean? And so, like, I've never had the experience of building a business from the ground up.

I mean, I guess selling some hats online was the closest thing I ever got to that. So I'm I'm super excited about that experience of, like, building something and, like, being along for this ride and and and having this goal in mind, but also just, you know, kinda starting comparatively from scratch. Right? Even though Happily's been around in many different forms up until now, but, like, now it's on its own. It's its own thing.

Right? So I'm super excited for, like, the process of building that. Super excited for, like, to get out of my comfort zone again. I think I was very much found myself when I was a solutions engineer back into my comfort zone. So I think this would be, like, a really, really cool opportunity.

But I'm also just so stoked that I get to, like, remain in this community that I love so much, and I get to work with, you know, all these partners in these new and exciting ways. I get to keep keep keep contributing to the mission and helping millions of organizations grow better, right, on Hub And I get to stay within the orbit of this universe that I love. And that's super cool. And, like, that's probably the only reason I could ever leave HubSpot. Like, this is the one unique scenario that whatever and I'm doing air quotations for the audio only listeners that would ever pull me away from HubSpot.

I don't feel like I'm pulled away from HubSpot. I'm in the fight still with everybody else. I just get to be attacking the same mission at a different angle is the way that I'm looking at it. Right? And I'm stoked.

It's gonna be great.

George B. Thomas: I love it. And you finally get to have your own thoughts and opinions without needing to, you know

Max Cohen: I was still throwing them out there before, but now we don't need safe harbor language.

Liz Moorehead: Honestly, what if what if we just went the alternative direction, George? What if each of us got our own safe harbor, but it was like unique to us? Like for example, Liz Murphy's opinions are gospel. There will be no pineapple on pizza, and she will reject everything it does. Oh.

Like everyone gets like their own safe harbor, and then we fight about it, and then that's the podcast, and then we give 5 minutes of, like No.

George B. Thomas: No.

Liz Moorehead: Tips and

George B. Thomas: tricks. Listen. This got real because pineapple on pizza is a real thing. I'm just gonna say that. We gotta back up

Max Cohen: for that. Do. No. No. Listen.

Listen. Here's the new way we're gonna do it. We're gonna do nothing but argue about pineapple on pizza, and then we'll just, like, play one of Kyle's tips and tricks videos at the end and just call it a day.

Liz Moorehead: And then I'll That'll be the podcast. Monetize. You know what? Work smarter, not harder. This sounds smart.

Max Cohen: Exactly.

Liz Moorehead: I also need to out you about something, George, because we've had a weird loosey goosey using use of use of the censoring. We had Max dropping dropping s bombs, but then censored himself later with dick words. My favorite Georgism though, and you will see this if you ever see the video, is that he will hit the censored button for a swear he does not say it.

George B. Thomas: I don't really say it. It's like I just shut up, but I'm like, you son and then my mouth doesn't move.

Liz Moorehead: That's exactly what happens. And so the stuff that actually needs to get censored is usually said by me, and it's usually followed by awkward silence, and then George going, Noah, you're gonna need to edit this out.

Max Cohen: That's typically it. That's why we don't do it live.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. That would be a fun day. Yeah. I'd have to I'd get I'd have to get, like, some sort of, like, live insurance or something so, like, we didn't get sued if we did, like, a live episode probably. But, anyway

Liz Moorehead: My own insurance policy was has to be insured separately like anybody who drives in the state of Massachusetts.

George B. Thomas: There you go.

Liz Moorehead: Well, George, give me the reins back because clearly clearly we need to put you back.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. And you still Take them away.

Liz Moorehead: Thank you. So hey, guys. How's it going?

Max Cohen: It's good. Good.

Liz Moorehead: Are we ready? Wow. Don't be so excited. I'm excited. Calm down.

George B. Thomas: I'm ready.

Liz Moorehead: You're at a 15. I need it like a 7. No. We're talking about

George B. Thomas: apps. Yes.

Liz Moorehead: We're talking about apps.

George B. Thomas: Yes.

Liz Moorehead: Not mozzarella sticks, unfortunately.

George B. Thomas: Oh. Because I'm super happy. Or nachos.

Liz Moorehead: We're talking about HubSpot apps, guys. It is not happy hour yet. We are almost there. I get it. Nachos, my mistakes.

We're almost there.

Max Cohen: Is it happy hour, though? Yeah. Wait.

Liz Moorehead: Quick poll. Favorite app. Mine's potato skins. You got

George B. Thomas: it. Nachos.

Max Cohen: I was gonna say, like, peso and chip, but that's

George B. Thomas: basically having pain right now trying to

Max Cohen: fix that.

Liz Moorehead: You know what? We'll come back to you. We'll come back to you because we are here to talk about HubSpot apps. Mostly because when someone says apps I think nachos, potato skins, I don't think, happily, HubSpot, I do not think about those things and George when you and I were talking about this topic earlier this week, let's be honest, how many organizations do we know that are using HubSpot? Maybe they've been using HubSpot for years.

How many of the apps do they have connected? 0, maybe 1 or 2 Zapier's apps, end of list. So thank you, Max, so much for going to a different company, which makes us and our ability to talk about this topic a little bit easier. That was a really nice play for you, by the way, to help us, you know, really educate on this topic. That's really

Max Cohen: the only reason I did it. Yeah.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. To make the podcast better.

Liz Moorehead: The question I have for everybody today is what's the deal with HubSpot apps? Like, that's what I want to know. What are most people getting wrong about it? What do they need to get right about it? This is not your last hurrah shilling for HubSpot.

It is your first hurrah shilling for big Big app. Right? You're shilling for big

Max Cohen: Listen, I I will forever

Liz Moorehead: HubSpot apps.

Max Cohen: I will forever shill for HubSpot, no matter how not employed I am by them. It's in my blood.

Liz Moorehead: Pick up your big app blazer, buddy. It's time to shill.

Max Cohen: Yeah. Gonna shill. I think the the the the conversation here is not necessarily just like what what is a HubSpot app. It's sort of like if you were a company using HubSpot and you're trying to think of the different ways that you can extend it and make it do more, a lot of the times, you you just think about integrations. You're you're looking at it through the lens of, like, I have data in this other place, and I wanna bring the data into HubSpot or vice versa, right, and just send information, like, back and forth.

And I think a lot of the time when people, like they're like, oh, like, what's available? You you go to the app store, and that's a lot of the times what you see. You you just see integrations with other tools. And, like, some of them add functionality to HubSpot. That's great.

But usually and and maybe, like, this is a good idea for us to, like, define, like, what we mean by, like, an app versus, like, an integration. Usually, what you're seeing is some sort of connector between HubSpot and another system, and it shares data back and forth. Take Salesforce, for example. Right? There's an integration with Salesforce, and it makes your opportunities in Salesforce show up as deals in HubSpot, and your contacts in HubSpot sync with contacts and leads in Salesforce.

All it's doing is just sharing information back and forth. Right? I'm not giving it as much credit. There's there's a lot more that that integration does.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. The people who built that integration is probably, like,

Max Cohen: screw you back. Don't don't come kill me. Don't don't send anyone to my house.

Liz Moorehead: So happily right now. Listen.

Max Cohen: That integration is great on its own. When I'm talking about apps, I'm thinking of something that is built on HubSpot with the sole purpose of adding functionality to HubSpot. And there's no you can't, like, buy the app and use it on its own without HubSpot. Like, it is made to to make HubSpot better. Right?

And the reason I think everybody should be excited about and and this is nothing new. Like, companies have been doing this for a while. Like, Happily used to be a company called Appchemists, and they were doing this a long time ago. And you've seen other HubSpot partner agencies, for example, build these little apps that they have on on the HubSpot app marketplace. And it's cool because it, like, fills these gaps for things that HubSpot just doesn't do yet or doesn't do or isn't planning to do or hasn't built yet.

And what's super cool about that is that there's this giant ecosystem out there of developers that have sort of free reign to make HubSpot better in all these different ways. So one, that makes your experience with HubSpot even better. 2, it gives you options for how you wanna do certain things in HubSpot that maybe HubSpot does, but maybe there's an app out there that does it, like, a little bit better or in a different way. The same exact reason that, like, some people might be great with the phone app or sorry, the calculator app on your phone instead of using a different calculator you might download from the app store. So it's cool.

It kinda gives you more choice in the way that you do things with HubSpot for even the stuff that it already does. But on top of that, it drives really good competition and innovation because other app vendors might go out and create apps that do something a little bit better than the other one. But it might even inspire HubSpot to, like, improve different parts of its tools as well. So it's really, really cool. And, like, if you look at any, like, big platforms out there, like Salesforce, for example, there are companies that have been built for the sole purpose of building apps on Salesforce.

And that's the whole reason that they exist, because they add more functionality into that tool. And what's great as you see HubSpot start to go up market and expand and do a whole lot more ever since, like, custom objects became a thing, and we opened up more of our API and, like, all that kinda stuff. You're gonna start to see the same thing happen to HubSpot, where there is this gonna be these companies, like Happily. Right? Like, Arrows.

Like, a lot of these other, you know, businesses that are solely building products on top of HubSpot. Just wait for the day where someone comes out and builds, like, the ERP for HubSpot. That is, like, built on HubSpot. There's a lot of exciting things that could come from it. But, like, that's when we say, like, apps versus integrations.

Like, no. There's there's more stuff out there than just something that, like, connects you with another product. Right? And those would be like apps built on HubSpot.

George B. Thomas: And I love this conversation because it's it's not only even just companies that do apps. It's it's even agencies that can do apps. Like, right, I got the first view into this, and then, Liz, you can rein us in and bring us back to where we're headed for this. I got a first whiff of this when I worked with Remington and Rachel Beg at Impulse Creative when we created Hub LMS. We were one of the first movers to build a actual LMS learning management system that worked on-site of HubSpot.

It wasn't integration with anything else. You didn't need anything else. You literally just downloaded the air quotes here for the listeners too, Max, at what people would call a theme, and boom, you had that learning management system ability. And they've done it over and over again. They've got multiple, what I'll call, apps even though they're an agency that that extend it.

And that's what excites me about this is not necessarily if it's an agency, not if it's a company, not even if it's Housewap themselves. It's when they fill in the gaps that are missing for people. So for instance, here's one thing that I as as I did some research for this episode, one thing that frustrated me is a while ago, I realized I could only post to, like, LinkedIn pages and not, like, personal post on LinkedIn with my HubSpot social tool. And I was like, man, that's frustrating. Something must have changed.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah. Whatever. So as I was doing investigation, I was looking at because one of the things is, like, what are people getting wrong with the app system? And so I started to go through, like, the market, place and and the different, like, sidebar and stuff like that. And I was scrolling through, and I saw LinkedIn ads.

And I go, well, that makes sense. And then I saw LinkedIn and Facebook. And I was like, what the freak? Like, there's already, like, social tools that connect LinkedIn and Facebook. Why would you need an app for something that is already a tool in HubSpot?

And so I installed the LinkedIn app built by HubSpot, by the way. And all of a sudden, it let me connect my personal LinkedIn to my social tools, and now I can literally post to my personal LinkedIn and my LinkedIn page from the tool that I've loved to use previously. And I was like, wait. Wait. If I don't know this, how many other people are getting it wrong and not looking at the free app section or the new apps section on, like, a weekly basis to see what's showing up and what is possible for your business.

Liz Moorehead: I think that's because when you think about the HubSpot apps marketplace, you know, potato skins, mozzie sticks, and nachos aside, usually what happens is that people go inside HubSpot and they just see HubSpot, they don't even end up on that side of the platform at all and so Exactly. I'm curious to hear from you but either of you, why do you think businesses, it's kind of like the joke like Max, you know, that's like you were on the wrong side of TikTok, it's almost like you're on the wrong side of HubSpot, like how do you end up in this ecosystem where you're not experiencing any apps and George, you have 18 bajillion certifications and this is brand new information for you. Why do we think there is such either a lack of information, a black hole of information if you will around apps?

George B. Thomas: It's interesting. And I was trying to kinda self diagnose this, and and I feel like sometimes we get this disease that is, like, main nav it is, where we look at the things that are on our main navigation, and we feel like those are the only places we can play. Because if I think of, like, a potential desert that when I show people how in HubSpot to get to HubSpot Academy and they're like, oh my god. I didn't even know that you could get there on this road. I thought I had to go out to Google and and Google HubSpot Academy or, like, the fact that there there's a little there's a little little

Max Cohen: tiny icon

George B. Thomas: of a shop. When I look at a shop, I get scared. I have daughters and a wife. It means I'm gonna spend money. So maybe this is off the right or Hey.

Hey. I'm just being real here. So first of all, the fact that it's a shop, it I feel like I'm gonna have to buy something, which if it's one place, maybe you do. But that place, you don't. There's there's free apps, and and some of them have prices, so don't get me wrong.

Nobody come after me or anything. But my point is, it's not very easy to get to. It's not something that we've trained people that they should go check out on a weekly or monthly basis. It's not something that when we have normal conversations about filling the gap that we actually talk a lot about apps because we're usually talking about filling the gap in their business with HubSpot itself.

Liz Moorehead: You know, I've got a point and then a question.

Max Cohen: Number 1 answer to to that if oh, wait. Go ahead. No. Go ahead. Yeah.

George B. Thomas: I was

Max Cohen: gonna say I have I have my answer to to what you had just asked is that I think people are used to using apps, so they're not used to using platforms that apps get built on. And HubSpot, I think, started as an app, but it's definitely in that later latter category where, like, it's it's it's a platform people build stuff on. But end users, I don't think, are necessarily, like, gonna be in that mode. End users are in the mode of I need to go out and get a different app and tool to do stuff because they all do different things, versus this thing that I'm looking at can be modified in so many different ways and had so much functionality added to it. I don't think people are used to just saying, oh, I need new functionality.

That means I need different program. Because that's kinda what we've been taught. We've been taught, oh, you want your phone to do this? You go download an app from the App Store. You want your phone to do this?

You wanna go download an app from App Store. Not, oh, this app doesn't do what I want it to, so I could modify this app in some way. It's I need a different app to go do it. Right? And I think that's kind of what people think

George B. Thomas: about it. An idea. I have an idea. The powers of HubSpot. I hope you're listening.

Somebody share this with Brian, Yamini, Dharmesh, whoever's in the top of the food chain. The next commercial because by the way, did you just see the Wild Wild West one? It was super dope. The pirate one's up. The next HubSpot commercial needs to be there's an app for that commercial, a dope idea.

Max Cohen: Yeah. I love that.

Liz Moorehead: Noah, there was a bit of crosstalk between Max and myself. Just cut that out and just have it start with, I have an answer to that question from Max. Was trying to write it out as note, and it wasn't working out. Look. This is, this is called efficiency, people.

Max Cohen: Or just leave it all in, don't worry.

Liz Moorehead: I was trying to make you look good, Max. Alright. I have a point and a question. Number 1, because I'm a petty Betty. George, here's my beef with your comment about wives and women and daughters, and shopping.

George B. Thomas: Oh, God.

Liz Moorehead: Do you know what women do? We spread our shopping out. Do you know what men do? They don't spread their shopping out. They'll just be like, oh, I only bought one thing once.

And that thing will be anywhere between $602,000. We just spread it out. We're more True. Economically. It's true.

It's true. I mean, my my wife wouldn't say that. Shop so much, and then you come home with, like, what? This $3,000 thing? It's an investment.

But we get in trouble for going to Target.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. I know. I fully know that when Noah listens to this, he's gonna go play that to my wife and daughters, and they're just gonna point at my office and be like, shut up. That's I know that's happening. We're we're getting it.

Liz Moorehead: Here for you, Kelly and Kaylee. I'm here for you, and I see you. And, also, George, this is an episode about HubSpot apps. Try to stay on topic.

George B. Thomas: I'm sorry.

Liz Moorehead: And with that in mind with that in mind, you actually bring up a couple of good points here. So number 1, somebody finds the tiny little shopping bag. They have Vietnam level flashbacks about their wives, their daughters, their girlfriends going shopping, and then they bring it back in. Or you're a woman going, man, when will he stop buying $3,000 things? But you get there and you're ready to start taking a look at the app marketplace.

You're ready to start thinking about how do I integrate this in to what it is that I'm doing when I have no idea what any of this is? How do you even begin to navigate? How do you ask yourself certain questions? Do you just start clicking things? Like what do we do here?

Max Cohen: Oh, pick me. Pick me. Pick me. Because this is a conversation I love having with people. And I don't know if I've I don't know if I've said this little metaphor on the podcast before.

Maybe I have. But whatever you're thinking, oh, I need HubSpot to do something else or I need to integrate it with something. There's a I call it the 3 layer dip method. Step 1, you go on the app marketplace, and you and you try to find, like, a native app already built there. You go and try to see, is there an integration?

Is there an app that does it? Like like, whatever. And the thing you always gotta be careful with is, like, just because there's an integration, doesn't mean it works the way you need it to. So always kinda put that in the back of your head. But step 1, just see if it already exists.

If it doesn't, start thinking about, like, iPaaS systems. So information passed through as a service. So instead of a marketplace app, try to see if you can build what the functionality you're trying to get out of something like a Zapier, a Workato, a Syncari, Like, some sort of application that helps you connect different apps to HubSpot, but do it in like a no or low code way that you can kind of build the functionality or the syncing rules or whatever that you want without having to dev it out. If that doesn't work, what you gotta remember is that HubSpot's APIs exist. There's an endpoint for pretty much almost every single feature inside of HubSpot.

No matter what type of information you wanna push and pull back in, 9 times out of 10, you're gonna find a way to do it through the API. The downside of that method is that you have to pay developers to do it. But the upside of the method is that you could kinda build anything you want on HubSpot. Something that a lot of people don't know about are what are called CRM extensions, specifically custom cards. Custom cards allow developers to build in custom software experiences inside of HubSpot.

So if you have, like, an internal app at your company, you can literally, like, build this little card that shows up on records that, like, launches an interface inside of HubSpot. And, like, that could be an internal system you already use, or it could be, like, a totally custom app you've built for your business that you want people to be able to interact with off of, like, a deal record or a company record or a contact record. So there's all these varying levels of easy, one click kind of install and everything in between to, like if you have the team and the resources to build it on your own, you can build almost anything on HubSpot using custom cards and the APIs. Right? It really kind of depends on, like, your creativity, what you're trying to do with it, things like that.

But just always remember there's that 3 layer dip kind of method, whatever you're trying to accomplish something. And sometimes it's an integration. Sometimes it's building in custom functionality. It really kinda just depends on what your use case is.

George B. Thomas: Alright. So I love that you mentioned 3 layers because I'm gonna go 3 layers too, but in a different direction. Because here's the thing. I wanna go back to this whole shopping analogy. First of all, I don't go shopping.

I go buying. Okay? That's what I do. I go buying. And so if I go to the store, I know where I'm headed.

It's down the aisle, 2 rows, turn right, grab the mayonnaise, and we're out of here. K? So when I think about 3 layers in the marketplace, Max, there's 3 places that

Liz Moorehead: I can every mansplained about shopping.

George B. Thomas: Oh, Jesus.

Liz Moorehead: I want everybody to be clear about what is happening right now. I got mansplained about time earlier, and now I'm getting mansplained about

George B. Thomas: the job too. Well, that was before we hit record. But anyway

Liz Moorehead: Well, now it's on the record. I wasn't gonna say anything because it's Max's big day, but I am feeling attacked. But, George, it sounds like you're bringing up a really good conversation about

George B. Thomas: that. I'm trying to talk about the main aisles that people should be paying attention to in the store. First of all, if you haven't been to the app marketplace, you need to go to the free apps. It's on the left hand side. You'll see literally free apps, and you just need to scroll through there and look at things that you might not realize.

Like, for instance, the LinkedIn 1 or Facebook Messenger 1 or the Google Meets Google contacts 1 or the Canva 1 or there's just a bunch of free ones that you can start to look at and see what additional probably monthly, but I'd like to do it weekly and just look at new apps. Like, who's probably monthly, but I'd like to do it weekly and just look at new apps. Like, who are the new players in the game? You know? And going through those results and seeing, like, right now, you know, there's North Texas MS, there's Sendbuzz, there's CompanyCam, there's VoiceSpin, there's Boomi, all sorts of new apps.

And then last but not least, what are the tried and trues? Go down the 3rd aisle and look at popular apps, the ones that all the historical HubSpot users have deemed that these are the popular apps that everybody wants to use. Those are 3 aisles. Listen. I'm saving you time.

You don't have to shop the whole store. Just go down the 3 main aisles. You'll be good to go.

Liz Moorehead: And Kelly and Kaylee, I just

George B. Thomas: Oh, here we go.

Liz Moorehead: Time on your side, and you can go down any aisle that you want. Now, you know what I do love about this layering method? We now have a 6 layer app dip that we've developed.

George B. Thomas: Is that another app, like, that we can eat, like, at happy hour?

Liz Moorehead: Yes. I don't know. Apparently, we're all very hungry and we did not know this or this is what happens when Devon Devon leaves us unattended. Yep. Is he the true host?

George B. Thomas: It's Devon's fault. It really we're gonna blame Devon because he's not here.

Liz Moorehead: I think we need to be fair to Devon. This is a very emotional time for him. This is his first time with Max. He's not a fellow HubSpotter. So Devon, we'll see you here with you.

And I also know you would never shame me about shopping. I love you, my big kisses.

Max Cohen: Wait. Hold on. I'm just looking through the new apps right now, and there's one called it says chat gpt for your meetings, and it's called woodpecker. It's called w u dpecker. Woodpecker.

Liz Moorehead: Guys, do you think we're doing a good job of making the case for a good spot to have a stupid live show? Show? Are we doing great? Let us know. Let us know what shopping opinion atgb@georgegbt.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. At chatgbt. Oh my gosh. Alright.

Liz Moorehead: Alright. Alright. Hold on. This is one

George B. Thomas: of the things that we're not wood. Maybe it's wood. Maybe it's wood.

Max Cohen: Wood. Woodpecker.

George B. Thomas: Like, on my foot?

Max Cohen: Did you log your notes to woodpecker? Oh, we

George B. Thomas: love you. Whoever you are, we love you. Sorry. Well, yeah.

Max Cohen: Shout out to woodpecker. I just didn't know how to say the name. Sounds pretty cool.

Liz Moorehead: I'm sorry. I was just waiting for somebody to say something interesting.

Max Cohen: Oh. We're waiting for you. That's why we're waiting for you.

George B. Thomas: No. No. Be careful. Be careful. You're treading on the nice, Max.

Liz Moorehead: Maximilian. You're saying the interesting stuff. Maximilian. What? How many apps in the HubSpot app marketplace end with in Lee?

Max Cohen: In Lee? Oh, yeah. How many SaaS companies end in l y?

Liz Moorehead: Oh my god.

Max Cohen: But wait, I work for 1.

George B. Thomas: You do.

Max Cohen: Did you

Liz Moorehead: just get that? Did you just get

Max Cohen: I just realized it. Yeah.

Liz Moorehead: No. I was owning you. It was happening.

Max Cohen: Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Moorehead: Alright. Alright. Alright. So what I'm hearing is that from the from the you. Jesus.

What I'm hearing is from, you know, I we just wanna thank our sponsors, whatever it is that George is drinking, that caffeinated fizzy beverage. Max's lid brigade, we also appreciate your support, and shopping anonymous. You know, I've learned today that I have a problem. Now, when I think about HubSpot apps, what I've been hearing this whole time, because I came into this conversation also wanting to learn about this. Right?

Because I think like you said, we all have main navitis. We get stuck in the main nav and to be clear, HubSpot is amazing. It's why we're here talking the talk, walking the walk. But it sounds like it really comes down to a bit of exploration here. You're not gonna know what apps are right for you until you go click on that shopping bag and start taking a look at what's around and start experimenting and thinking about what your goals are.

So if you were to leave someone with one piece of advice, either a thing they need to do or a thing they should avoid doing as they're going through this 7 layer app dip exploration. What is it and why?

Max Cohen: Get your free trial on. I mean, a lot of these different apps on there, they've got free trials. You can usually try them for free. Play around with it. But also just, like, ask the right questions.

Like, a lot of them do cost money. And and also don't, like here's the thing. Don't oh, man. Because I'm kinda gonna I'm not I'm not trying to, like, call anybody out that I used to work with, but I think this is actually just a this is a thing common across SaaS companies in general. So I'll say that.

When you're talking to salespeople and people say, oh, yeah. We have an integration with that. It doesn't mean that integration is gonna do exactly what you want it to do. So if you are ever exploring buying a piece of software, whether it's HubSpot or anything else, and you know you've got to have it talk to some other system or whatever, just because they say there's an integration, doesn't mean the integration works the way you want it to. So ensure that you talk to the right people that, like, own the integration or sell the integration or make the integration or, like, whatever it is.

Clearly explain your use case. If you can free trial it, free trial it. Right? But just don't don't take, yes, we have an app that does that, or yes, we have an integration with x y z at face value. Like, vet it out.

Vet it out.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. Because because I've run into some integrations that communicate like a kindergartner when I need a master's degree.

Liz Moorehead: Look at you with that metaphor. Nicely. That was a great metaphor. Good job.

George B. Thomas: I'm here for.

Liz Moorehead: I'm Max, I'm really loving how I said tell me one thing, and I got 3, but they were 3 very good things. So I'm gonna shame you, but I'm gonna thank you. George, here's

Max Cohen: Wasn't it all one thing just really long?

Liz Moorehead: No. You can't go 1, 2, 3, and say it's all one thing.

George B. Thomas: Well, I can't Loving

Liz Moorehead: man can't listen to you.

George B. Thomas: Listen. You can have an apple pie and cut it into 3 pieces. It's still one apple pie. Yeah. I'm just saying.

Liz Moorehead: Right. Those were 3 different points. Those are 3 actively different pies.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. It was the apple. It was the apple sauce stuff, and it was the crust. Course.

Liz Moorehead: What's your one thing, bud?

George B. Thomas: Okay. Hey, Max. I'm trying. I'm trying to be here for you, brother. Here's the thing.

My one thing actually has 0 to do with the app marketplace. My one thing is, and it's it's listen. At the end of the day, the one thing I would want you to take from this conversation is what are the gaps that are in the way of your success or streamlining your teams or being able to, you know, be more cohesive conversationally with the people that you're serving? Like, what what are the problems and gaps or hurdles that you're facing? Once you diagnose those, then dive into the app marketplace and start to do research on what 2, 3, 4 apps solve those problems, fill those gaps, allow you to move faster, grow better.

Liz Moorehead: Love it. Are you guys ready for this week's haiku?

Max Cohen: Yeah. Oh.

Liz Moorehead: George, I know you're excited.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm excited.

Liz Moorehead: George and Max,

George B. Thomas: man's place We're

Liz Moorehead: getting a shopping tips to Liz. But wait, she owns the mall, guys. I'm out. Happy hub heroes recording day, everybody. Join us next week when it'll hopefully be less chaotic.

George B. Thomas: Yeah. Devon will be back. It'll be less chaotic.

Liz Moorehead: Devon please come

Max Cohen: back. Less chaotic. We always Leave a rest of you. Chaotic.

George B. Thomas: We try, people. We're doing our best.

Liz Moorehead: You. We love you. We'll talk to you next week.

George B. Thomas: Okay, hub heroes. We've reached the end of another episode. Will lord lack continue to loom over the community, or will we be able to defeat him in the next episode of the hub heroes podcast? Make sure you tune in and find out in the next episode. Make sure you head over to the hub heroes.com to get the latest episodes and become part of the league of heroes.

FYI, if you're part of the League of Heroes, you'll get the show notes right in your inbox, and they come with some hidden power up potential as well. Make sure you share this podcast with a friend. Leave a review if you like what you're listening to, and use the hashtag, hashtag hub euros podcast on any of the socials, and let us know what strategy conversation you'd like to listen into next. Until next time, when we meet and combine our forces, remember to be a happy, helpful, humble human, and of course, always be looking for a way to be someone's hero.