What is the HubSpot Apps Marketplace? (HubHeroes, Ep. 31)

[00:00:00] George B. Thomas:

That record needs replaced. That's right. Something has changed and man, we're gonna have to get a new. Podcast intro in place before the next time we record Max. Max. I want to give you time here at the beginning of this to share with the Hub, heroes audience, the fact that you don't
love No, I'm just kidding you. Do you still love?

[00:01:22] Liz Murphy:

Don't steal his thunder, let him go. And also before he does this, George, I don't know if you're this feeling at all.

[00:01:28] George B. Thomas:

Listen. I, 

[00:01:29] Max Cohen:

are feeling emotional about

[00:01:31] George B. Thomas:

I brought my tissue box. I brought my tissue box. But Max, why don't you explain to the, the hub, heroes, listeners, what in the, what in the world is going on?

[00:01:40] Max Cohen:

after seven years and four fantastical months at HubSpot, um, I have left the company. and I have joined this awesome company called Happily, which is firmly embedded in the HubSpot universe. Um, so I am not leaving this community by any means. In fact, I feel still, I still feel like I work at HubSpot.
I mean, I guess, you know, they're. HubSpot invested in Happily and Happily is paying my paycheck. So kind of like, in a weird way, I'm still working for HubSpot. but it's, it's really cool. I get to work with everybody in this community that I've built such awesome relationships with. I get to work with all my friends back at HubSpot, a whole bunch, telling them about.

All the cool apps that Happily is making and things like that. but my role at Happily is going to be the Chief Evangelist, not is going to be. It is, this is my, I'm, I'm a weekend at this point. Um, and I absolutely love it. It's super fun. if you don't know what Happily is, happily is a company that builds apps on HubSpot, right?

So, I think traditionally when you go and look. the HubSpot app Marketplace. You see a lot of integrations with other pieces of software and happily does build integrations. Specifically one with, uh, Stripe called Zebra, which is one of our flagship products. But they also make a lot of these really cool utility apps that just add functionality to HubSpot.
I'm sure we're gonna talk about that a little bit more later on. but yeah, my role there is creating a whole bunch of content, getting people super stoked and exciting about using Happily Apps. But also a huge part of my role is engaging with partners. So if you are a HubSpot partner and you're listening to this podcast, You need to book time with me and Dax so we can tell you all about our grow happily, uh, partner program, which George, I know you just became a, uh, a card carrying member of as well, so

[00:03:29] George B. Thomas:

I have my card.

[00:03:31] Max Cohen:

to Yeah, super stoked to partner with

[00:03:32] George B. Thomas:

zero dues and they let me in, which is amazing. It's

[00:03:36] Max Cohen:

and then we're just gonna pay you when you use our apps, it's great.

[00:03:39] George B. Thomas:

get paid.

[00:03:40] Max Cohen:

But yeah, I'm super stoked. I'm working with, uh, Connor Dax, Tyrone. Um, you know, these guys have been like building in the HubSpot ecosystem for a really long time now. and now happily is kind of the, the blossoming sort of end result of a lot of that hard work.

And they're just gonna keep coming out with a whole lot of really cool stuff that I can't wait to tell everybody about. so it's, it's really bittersweet being hub, like leaving HubSpot. I still feel very connected to HubSpot and I'm gonna keep being the goofy HubSpot troll that I've kind of built a brand around being.
Yeah, yeah. A little bit.

[00:04:15] George B. Thomas:

Wrong, not a troll, but

[00:04:16] Max Cohen:

Yeah. But like the best kind of troll you can imagine. You know what I mean?

[00:04:19] George B. Thomas:

it's funny, max, I'm gonna get this right outta the way because you know me, I'm all about the humans.

[00:04:23] Liz Murphy:

Oh 

[00:04:24] Max Cohen:

Yes. 

[00:04:25] George B. Thomas:

Max, you actually are a human. And so I wanna dive a little bit deeper into this. You, you, you just flew by it a seven year like journey that you've been on. And so I, I, you know, obviously we are gonna get into talking about app ecosystem, uh, HubSpot 

[00:04:43] Liz Murphy:

Don't steal my thunder. I'm seeing that 

[00:04:45] George B. Thomas:

Yeah. Yeah, you are. 

[00:04:46] Liz Murphy:

we're getting 

[00:04:47] George B. Thomas:

You are, I just, I want, I wanna foreshadow for the listeners. We're gonna get to some valuable stuff, even though I feel like what we're about to do is gonna be uber valuable to a ton of people as well. Cuz Max, I wanna take time and I want to, I want to, I wanna diagnose some of the journey, right? Like where, where you started, you know, where you got to because we, we just shared where, where you are now and where you're going. I'm super curious, like what's the most important or surprising that Max Cohen learned about inbound and the industry while at HubSpot?

[00:05:24] Max Cohen:

that one's super interesting. I think I learned a lot about that during my first sort of role at HubSpot when I was an implementation specialist and. you know, I spent the first like three years of my HubSpot life, if you will, helping onboard new customers and back then when it was like primarily a marketing product, you know, we were sort of part technical help you set it up and get it going and get you activated on the product.
But then that was like the first like week or so, and then we had to be like inbound marketing consultants for like the rest of the three months we were working together with those customers. It was so interesting because I saw so many different ways that people operated, businesses operated the way people thought about how you should be running a business and what you shouldn't be doing.

I learned a lot about what you shouldn't be doing. But I also, like, I don't really think like I fully had kind of understood the impact that an inbound strategy could have on a. Prior to actually coming and, and seeing it happen, Because that's where my sort of like fire under my ass about all this stuff happened is when I would, you know, help people set this tool up, but then more so get them to like change their mindset into the way they thought about marketing and got away from like, oh, let's just send as many direct mailers or try to get a TV spot here or, an ad in a magazine or just try to interrupt people or just email, blast the shit outta people.
And when they changed their mindset into like, let's think about how we could be like educators through our content and actually teach people stuff and think about what someone's actually searching for and what would actually be valuable. Like when I was able to get people to like change that mindset and actually adopt this way of marketing that they just weren't really kind of familiar with.
Cuz it's, you know, It's a little bit nuanced, right, to think about marketing in that way, and not everyone naturally thinks about it that way. They think about the way they've been advertised to, When I started to see people actually be very successful with it, you know, I think that the, the thing, the lesson that it taught me is that like there's always a better way to do something.

There's a better way to market, there's a better way to, to treat your customers. There's a better way to think about how you make money as a business, And it's not just what you think it is, which is what we've all experienced up until, the inbound light, if you will. so I think like the big thing is just like inbound's a powerful thing when you do it right.

And you can either choose to do it right or you can choose to kind of keep doing the thing. Like it really kind of, you know, it is what you put into it, I think is also like a big lesson that I learned just about inbound in general, the, the, the strategy and the software like hubs. It is only gonna be as good as the effort that you actually put into deploying it and doing it correctly and using it. So, yeah, a couple weird little lessons in there,

[00:08:04] George B. Thomas:

which, which ties back really good to like a previous episode of the importance of educating yourself. And HubSpot Academy, but, but I wanna dig in a little bit deeper, right? I'm, I'm gonna see if I can actually maybe make  you cry 

[00:08:16] Liz Murphy:

Have a feeling, have a 

[00:08:18] George B. Thomas:

Like, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's see if Max, we can make max cry That's the goal for this first part.

[00:08:24] Max Cohen:

probably gonna,

[00:08:26] George B. Thomas:

so the, the most important or surprise lesson that you learned about yourself, Mr. Max Cohen, you're like, oh, oh crap.

[00:08:38] Max Cohen:

yeah. Tina, I'm already crying the hell.

[00:08:40] Liz Murphy:

Do you like by the way that we're like, have a feeling, burn, burn. I mean, we love you, we support you.

[00:08:48] Max Cohen:

Yeah. 

[00:08:49] George B. Thomas:

this buddy.

[00:08:50] Max Cohen:

Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, I, I, I, and I, I think I still struggle with this too. I mean, I'm in therapy, right? We're all in therapy. If you're not in therapy, you should be in therapy. But, I think in my seven years here, something that I came to truly. That I never thought I would believe in my entire life is that I could actually have an impact on other people.

I made that post, I made a couple p I mean, I, I was pretty loud about the fact that I was leaving HubSpot on LinkedIn and I had made that, you know, long sappy post where I was like thanking HubSpot for like, everything like it did for me It was around like 130, 140, sort of like really nice comments on there from past customers, colleagues, new hires that I trained, partners and, and like people telling me like how I actually like, made a difference in their career.

Even if it was just a, a little bit, you know, I had, I had people slacking me that. Telling me like, Hey, I should have reached out to you before, but like you were, the reason I joined HubSpot, like your content is what made me find HubSpot for the first time and get like super stoked about like actually applying and I had no idea.

You know what I mean? And like seeing that stuff, especially being someone who's like had that little voice in the back of your head of just like, you don't matter, nothing, you do matters and, and everything you say is wrong. You know, we all know what that little voice sounds like, I think knowing that I was able to actually like, have an impact on some people was, was really cool.

And it did a lot for my self-confidence to like, have confirmation of that. Cuz again, I struggle with self-worth. I struggle with, you know, imposter syndrome like 24 7, right. And. It's just cool to see that I, I had a little bit of an impact there, you know?

[00:10:33] George B. Thomas:

I, I love this because you're saying I had a little bit of an impact. Dude, you've had a massive impact. and what I love is that you're actually. See kind of the, it's hard to see a brand inside of another brand, but as you move from one right, HubSpot to happily, you get this glimpse of like what your brand has kind of built into, who you as a human have been showing up as an and how people appreciate that.

And so the fact that your thing was like, I realized I'm putting a dent in the universe. Excites the hell outta me because now I know that's fuel to what you will do moving forward. And the, the dent, the massive dent that you're gonna make moving forward, uh, with that new, found, Hey, this is the brand, this is the self-belief.

And the fact that you're working on like, dude, you're the shiz. You need to realize you're the shs. Like, anyway, Liz, I know you got like a little emotional with the, the thing. Anything. 

[00:11:28] Liz Murphy:

You know, max, it, it's so funny to hear you say that because I literally stalked your ass on TikTok for like months before I even knew that we were doing this together. I said, he's so funny. And I like what he teaches, and he did so great and he felt awesome. So it's, I think that's always funny though, right?
Like, how many of us, Feels so comfortable when we're serving other people. But the moment we have to serve ourselves by showing us just maybe showing ourselves maybe like one ounce of kindness, one ounce of attention, one ounce of maybe I'm not a total failure. We just like, we just like collapsed. Like a how? Like it's impossible. And so, you know, max, when I think about you, Your story. Uh, I really want to talk more about myself because I'm an only child and I like affirmation and attention more than breathing, so I speak for everyone when I say, does this mean you are leaving the podcast? 

[00:12:17] Max Cohen:

No.  What do you mean? Yeah. Oh, okay. If I hadn't made that  abundantly clear, obviously not the.

[00:12:23] Liz Murphy:

say it because I'm like the. child going, aha. So I get Santa isn't real. Am I still getting presents? We haven't covered 

[00:12:29] George B. Thomas:

Man, I hope there's no kids in the room and they're list like hopefully people have a headphones 

[00:12:34] Liz Murphy:

You know what, if their kids are 

[00:12:35] George B. Thomas:

just destroyed lives on the Hub

[00:12:37] Liz Murphy:

You know what? Span lives inside of all of
us and it's creepy. Um, how about that? There we go. So then number two, producer question. does this now mean we're gonna have two safe harbor statements at the beginning of our show going forward?
Or just the 

[00:12:49] George B. Thomas:

No, just, just, yeah. One maybe what? Yeah, so for sure. So here one more. I have one more. Then we're gonna get into apps 

[00:12:57] Liz Murphy:

Well, that was, wait, I had a question for 

[00:12:59] George B. Thomas:

Oh, okay. Go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:13:01] Liz Murphy:

So we've sat here and talked about all of your time at HubSpot. What are you most excited about with Happily, you already gave us the rundown, the elevator pitch, the thing, the what, the why, the how, but what makes you Max Co and Mayor of Closed One City as your hat that you're wearing right now?
Displaced. So ly, why are you so?

[00:13:19] Max Cohen:

Let's, let's also just like throw this in here. Not only will I still be on the podcast, but I'm still selling hats. So if anyone wants to pick up either a Rev Ops God or Close one city, or rev ops anything, or just pre-sales hat, whatever it is, shop dot max jacob cohen.com, baby still still selling. what am I most excited about it?
It's, you know, well, one, I've been telling people for a long, Apps being built on HubSpot is what excites me most about the future of the app marketplace and the future of HubSpot. Really. Right. Because if you think about what made the iPhone, the iPhone, it was the apps that were built on it. And I think a similar thing is probably gonna happen for HubSpot.

I've, I've heard a lot of people like frame it up that way. Right. I remember hearing Andy Petri say it once and I was like, man, you're right. That is like, That, that, that is what's gonna kind of take HubSpot to the next level. Cuz it's really great in a lot of ways. Right. And we'll, we'll, we'll talk about why it's great later.

What am I personally excited about? I mean, I've lived in very safe structured corporate environments my entire life. Right before I was working at HubSpot, I spent four years doing business sales at Apple. And before that I was at the Y M C A as a camp counselor. Right. So like, you know, Y M C A and Apple are very different, but they're both very well taste. Well yeah, I was a camp counselor. I was a lifeguard

[00:14:30] George B. Thomas:

not ever know this? 

[00:14:31] Max Cohen:

I don't know. Yeah, I was a  camp, camp counselor, kids, fun night childcare staff. I mean, I, I worked with kids. I thought I wanted to be a teacher, but in some ways that kind of ended up being one anyway. I mean, I kind of, I did for a while, I was the instructor on the l and d team for a bit.

But what I'm super stoked of is like, I've only worked in these very well established, uh, regulated, sort of environments, right? Whether it was the Y apple or hubs. never been an, at like a startup. I've never been somewhere where it's not like everything's fully established and like ingrained in stone.
I got to like use HubSpot and like build stuff on HubSpot that was actually gonna be real for the first time this week. You know what I mean? And so like I've never had the experience of building a business from the ground up. Um, I mean, I guess selling some hats online was the closest thing I ever got to that.

So I'm, I'm super excited about that experience of like building something and like being along for this ride and, and, and having this goal in mind, but also just, you know, kind of starting comparatively from scratch. Right. Even though, happily has been around in many different forms up until now, but like now it's on its own, it's its own thing.
Right. so I'm super excited for like, the process of building that. Super excited for like to get out of my comfort zone again. I think I was very much found myself when I was a solutions engineer back into my comfort zone, so I think this would be like a really, really cool opportunity. But I'm also just so stoked that I get to, like, remain in this community that I love so much and I get to work with, you know, all these partners in these new and exciting ways I get to.

Keep, keep contributing to the mission and helping millions of organizations grow better. Right on HubSpot, and I get to stay within the orbit of this universe that I love. And that's super cool and like, that's probably the only reason I could ever leave HubSpot. Like this is the one unique scenario.

Whatever. And I'm doing air quotations for the audio-only listeners, That would ever pull me away from HubSpot. I don't feel like I'm pulled away from HubSpot. I'm in the fight still with everybody else. I just get to be attacking the same mission at a different angles the way that I'm looking at it.
Right. And I'm stoked. It's gonna be 

[00:16:33] George B. Thomas:

love it, and you finally get to have your own thoughts and opinions without needing to,

[00:16:38] Max Cohen:

Hey, that was still throwing 'em out there before, but now we don't need safe harbor.

[00:16:43] Liz Murphy:

Honestly, what if, what if we just went the alternative direction, George? What if each of us got our own safe harbor? But it was like unique to us. Like for example, Liz Murphy's opinions are gospel. There will be no pineapple on pizza and she will reject 

[00:16:55] George B. Thomas:

Oh, oh, hold 

[00:16:57] Liz Murphy:

gets like their own safe harbor.
And then we fight about it, and then that's the podcast. And then we give five minutes of like 

[00:17:04] George B. Thomas:

no, no, no, Listen. This got real because pineapple on pizza is a real thing. I'm just
gonna say that.  We gotta 

[00:17:11] Liz Murphy:

Can I just out you 

[00:17:12] Max Cohen:

do. No, no. Listen, listen. Here's the new way we're gonna do it. We're gonna do nothing but argue about Pineapple on Pizza, and then we'll just like play one of Kyle's tips and tricks
videos at the end and just call it today and then I'll  be the

[00:17:23] George B. Thomas:

that'll be the 

[00:17:24] Liz Murphy:

Can we just monetize. You know what? Work smarter, not harder. This sounds smart. Um, I also need to out you about something, George, because we've had a weird Lucy goosey using use, use of the censoring Um, we had max dropping, dropping SBOs, but then censored himself later with words. My favorite George is them, though, and you will see this if you ever see the video, is that he will hit the censored button for a swear. He does 

[00:17:48] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, I don't really say it. It's like I just shut up, but I'm like, you suck. and then my mouth doesn't move.

[00:17:56] Liz Murphy:

That's exactly what happens. And so the stuff that actually needs to get censored is usually said by me, and it's usually followed by awkward silence. And then George going, Noah, you're gonna need to edit that out. 

[00:18:05] George B. Thomas:

That's typically it.

[00:18:07] Max Cohen:

That's why we don't Do it live. 

[00:18:08] George B. Thomas:

yeah, 

[00:18:10] Liz Murphy:

do it live.

[00:18:11] George B. Thomas:

I'd have to, I'd get, I'd have to get like some sort of like live insurance or something, so like we didn't get sued if we did like a live episode probably.  But anyway. 

[00:18:21] Liz Murphy:

My own insurance policy, Liz has to be insured separately, like anybody who drives in the state of Massachusetts. Well, George, gimme the reins back because clearly we need to put and you 

[00:18:35] George B. Thomas:

Take 'em away. 

[00:18:40] Liz Murphy:

Are we ready? Wow. Don't be so excited. Calm down. You're at a 15. I need it like a seven. No, we're talking about 

[00:18:46] George B. Thomas:

Yes. 

[00:18:47] Liz Murphy:

We're talking about apps. Uh, not mozzarella sticks unfortunately, cuz 

[00:18:51] George B. Thomas:

Ooh. Or nachos? 

[00:18:54] Liz Murphy:

about hub spa apps. Guys. It is not happy hour yet. We are almost there. I get it. Nachos, Mazi sticks. We're almost 

[00:19:01] Max Cohen:

Is it happy hour though?

[00:19:03] George B. Thomas:

Yeah. 

[00:19:04] Liz Murphy:

Oh.

[00:19:05] Max Cohen:

Let's go. 

[00:19:07] Liz Murphy:

Favorite app Mine's, potato skins, 

[00:19:09] George B. Thomas:

Oh, nachos.

[00:19:11] Max Cohen:

I was gonna say like queso and chips, but that's

[00:19:13] George B. Thomas:

You're literally physically  having pain right now  trying to pick, 

[00:19:16] Liz Murphy:

You know what? We'll come back to you. We'll come back to you because we are here to talk about HubSpot apps mostly because when someone says apps, I think nachos, potato skins, I don't think, happily HubSpot, I do not think about those things. And George, when you and I were talking about this topic earlier this week, let's be.

How many organizations do we know that are using HubSpot? Maybe they've been using HubSpot for years. How many of the apps do they have connected? Zero, maybe one or two Zapier's apps. End of list. So thank you Max so much for going to a different company, which makes us and our ability to talk about this topic a little bit easier.

That was a really nice play for you, by the way, to help us, you know, really educate on 

[00:19:56] George B. Thomas:

Yeah.

[00:19:57] Max Cohen:

really the only reason I did it. Yeah.

[00:19:59] George B. Thomas:

make the podcast better.

[00:20:01] Liz Murphy:

The question I have for everybody today is, what's the deal with HubSpot apps like? That's what I want to know. What are most people getting wrong about it? What do they need to get right about it? this is not your last hurrah shilling for HubSpot. It is your first shilling for big 

[00:20:17] Max Cohen:

Big  app, 

[00:20:18] Liz Murphy:

right? You're shilling for big 

[00:20:20] Max Cohen:

I, I will forever. I will forever shill for HubSpot. no matter how not employed I am by them. Uh, it's in my blood. 

[00:20:29] Liz Murphy:

up your big app blazer, buddy. It's time to show.

[00:20:32] Max Cohen:

yeah, go to chill. Um, I think that the, the, the, the conversation here is not necessarily just like what, what is a HubSpot app? it's sort of like if you were a company using hubs spot.

And you're trying to think of the different ways that you can extend it and make it do more. a lot of the times you, you just think about integrations, you're, you're looking at it through the lens of like, I have data in this other place and I wanna bring the data into HubSpot, or vice versa, right?

And just send information, like back and forth. And I think a lot of the time when people. They're like, oh, like what's available? You, you go to the app store and that's a lot of the times what you see. You, you just see integrations with other tools and like some of them add functionality to HubSpot.
That's great. But usually, and, and maybe like this is a good idea for us to like define like what we mean by like an app versus like an integration. Usually what you're seeing is some sort of connector between HubSpot and another system and it shares data back and forth. Take Salesforce, for example, right?
There's a new integration with Salesforce and it makes your opportunities in Salesforce show up as deals in HubSpot and your contacts and HubSpot sync with contacts and leads in Salesforce, All it's doing is just sharing information back and forth, right? I I, I'm not giving it as much credit.
There's, there's a lot more that, that an integration does. But,

[00:21:45] George B. Thomas:

people who built that integration
is probably like, screw 

[00:21:48] Max Cohen:

come kill me. Don't come kill me. Don't, don't send anyone to my house. Um, 

[00:21:52] Liz Murphy:

now. 

[00:21:54] Max Cohen:

That integration is great on its own when I'm talking about apps, I'm thinking of something that is built on HubSpot with the sole purpose of adding functionality to HubSpot, and there's no, you can't like buy the app and use it on its own without HubSpot, like it is made to, to make HubSpot better, right? And the reason I think everybody should be excited about, and, and this is nothing new, like companies have been doing this for a while. Like happily used to be a company called App Chemist and they were doing this a long time ago. And you've seen other, HubSpot partner agencies for example, build these little apps that they have on, on the HubSpot app marketplace.

And it's cool because it like fills these gaps for things that HubSpot just doesn't do. or doesn't do, or isn't planning to do or hasn't built yet. And what's super cool about that is that there's this giant ecosystem out there of developers that have sort of free reign to make HubSpot better in all these different ways, So one that makes your experience with HubSpot even better. Two, it gives you options for how you want to do certain things in HubSpot that maybe HubSpot does, but maybe there's an app out there that does it like a little bit better or in a different, the same exact reason that like some people might be great with the phone app, or sorry, the calculator app on your phone instead of using a different calculator you might download from the app store.

So it's cool. It kind of gives you more choice in the way that you do things with HubSpot for even the stuff that it already does, But on top of that, it drives really good competition and innovation because other app vendors might go out and create apps that do something a little bit better than the other one. But it might even inspire HubSpot to like improve different parts of its tools as well. so it's really, really cool. And like if you look at any like big platforms out there, like Salesforce for example, there are companies that have been built for the sole purpose of building apps on Salesforce.
and that's the whole reason that they exist cuz they add more function. Into that tool and what's great, as you see HubSpot start to go up market and expand and do a whole lot more. Ever since like custom objects became a thing and we opened up more of our API and like all that kind of stuff, you're gonna start to see the same thing happen to HubSpot, where there's these gonna be these companies like happily, right?

Like Arrows, like a lot of these other, you know, businesses that are solely building products on top of HubSpot. Just wait for the day where someone comes out and builds, like the e r P for HubSpot, That is like built on HubSpot, There's a lot of exciting things that could come from it, but like that's when we say like apps versus integrations, like no, there's, there's more stuff out there than just something that like connects you with another product, right? And those would be like apps built on HubSpot.

[00:24:25] George B. Thomas:

And I love this conversation because it's, it's not only even just companies that do apps, it's, it's even agencies that can do apps, like, right. I got the first view into this. And then Liz, you can reign us in and bring us back to where we're headed for this. I got a first, whiff of this when I worked with Remington and Rachel Bag at Impulse Created when we created Hub L.

We were one of the first movers to build a actual l m s learning management system that worked on side of HubSpot. It was an integration with anything else. You didn't need anything else. You literally just downloaded the air quotes here for the listeners too, max, at what people would call a theme. And boom, you had that learning management system, ability.

And they've done it over and over again. They've got multiple, what I'll call apps, even though they're an agency. That, that extend it. And that's what excites me about this is not necessarily if it's an agency, not, if it's a company, not even if it's house bought themselves, it's when they fill in the gaps that are missing for people.

So, for instance, here's one thing that I, as, as I did some research for this episode, one thing that frustrated me is a while. I realized I could only post to like LinkedIn, pages and not like personal post on LinkedIn with my HubSpot social tool. And I was like, man, that's frustrating. Something must have changed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

So as I was doing investigation, I was looking at, because one of the things is like, what are people getting wrong with the app system? And so I started to go through like the market, uh, place and, and the different like sidebar and stuff like that. And I was scrolling through and I saw LinkedIn ads and I go, well that makes sense.

And then I saw LinkedIn and Facebook and I was like, What the frick, like there's already like social tools that connect LinkedIn and Facebook. Why would you need an app for something that is already a tool in HubSpot? And so I installed the LinkedIn app built by HubSpot by the way. and all of a sudden it let me connect my personal LinkedIn.
To my social tools, and now I can literally post to my personal LinkedIn and my LinkedIn page from the tool that I've loved to use previously, and I was like, wait, wait. If I don't know this, how many other people are getting it wrong? And not looking at the free app section or the new app section on like a weekly basis to see what's showing up and what is possible for your 

[00:26:43] Liz Murphy:

I think that's because when you think about the HubSpot apps marketplace, you know, potato scans, mazzie sticks and nachos aside, usually what happens is that people go inside HubSpot. And they just see HubSpot. They don't even end up on that side of the platform at all. And so I would be curious to hear from you, but either of you, why do you think businesses.

It's kind of like the joke, like Max, you know, it's like you were on the wrong side of TikTok. It's almost like you're on the wrong side of HubSpot. Like how do you end up in this ecosystem where you're not experiencing any apps? And George, you have 18 bajillion certifications and this is brand new information for you.

Why do we think there is such either a lack of information, a black hole of information, if you will, around.

[00:27:30] George B. Thomas:

It's interesting and I was trying to kind of self-diagnose this and, and I feel like sometimes we get this disease that is like main nav. I. Where we look at the things that are on our main navigation and we feel like those are the only places we can play. Because if I think of like a potential desert that when I show people how in HubSpot to get to HubSpot Academy and they're like, oh my God, I didn't even know that you could get there on this road.

I thought I had to go out to Google and Google HubSpot Academy. Or like the fact that there, there's a little, there's a little, little tiny icon of a shop. when I look at a shop, I get scared. I have daughters and a wife, it means I'm gonna spend money.  So maybe this is not the right, like, Hey, hey, I'm just being real here.

So first of all, the fact that it's a shop, it, I feel like I'm gonna have to buy something, which, if it's one place, maybe you do, but that place you don't. There's, there's free apps and, and some of them have prices, so don't get me wrong, nobody come after me or anything. But my point is it's not very easy to get.
It's not something that we've trained people that they should go check out on a weekly or monthly basis. it's not something that when we have normal conversations about, filling the gap, that we actually talk a lot about apps because we're usually talking about filling the gap in their business with HubSpot itself.

[00:28:47] Liz Murphy:

You know, I've got a point and then a question number 

[00:28:50] Max Cohen:

an answer to to that if, oh wait, go ahead. No, go ahead. And then I'll, I'll, I was gonna say, I have, I have my answer to, to what you had just asked is that I think people are used to using apps and they're not used to using platforms that apps get built on. And HubSpot. I think started as an app, but it's definitely in that later latter category, Where like it's, it's, it's a platform people build stuff on, but end users I don't think are necessarily like gonna be in that mode. End users are in the mode of I need to go out and get a different app and tool to do stuff cuz they all do different things versus this thing that I'm looking at can be modified in so many different ways and had so much functionality added to it.

don't think people. they're used to just saying, oh, I need new functionality. That means I need different program, Because that's kind of what we've been taught. We've been taught, oh, you want your phone to do this? You go download an app from the app store. You want your phone to do this?
You wanna go download an app from the app store? Not, oh, this app doesn't do what I want it to, so I can modify this app in some way. It's, I need a different app to go do it. Right? And I think that's kind of what people
[00:29:48] George B. Thomas: I have an idea. I have an idea. The powers of HubSpot. I hope you're listening. Somebody share this with Brian Yamini, Dharmesh, whoever's in the top of the food chain. The next commercial, cuz by the way, did you just see the Wild, wild west one? It was super dope. The pirate ones up. The next HubSpot commercial needs to be, there's an app for that commercial, a spoof off of.
iPhone commercials used to be, and it's HubSpot. There's an app for that. Like that would be an a dope idea

[00:30:16] Max Cohen:

Yeah, I love. 

[00:30:18] Liz Murphy:

Noah, there was a bit of crosstalk between Max and myself. Just cut that out. Have it start with I have an answer to that question from Max. I was trying to write it out as note and it wasn't working out. Okay. Look, this is, uh, this is called Efficiency People.

[00:30:32] Max Cohen:

leave this all in Noah.

[00:30:34] George B. Thomas:

are like, yeah.

[00:30:36] Liz Murphy:

I was trying to make you look good, max. All right, I have a point and a question. Number one, because I'm a petty Betty George, here's my beef with your comment about wives and women and daughters and shopping. Do you know what women do? We spread our shopping out. Do you know what men
do? They don't spread their shopping out.
They'll just be like, oh, I only bought one thing once, and that thing will be anywhere between $602,000. We just spread it out. We're more economically. It's true. It's true. You'll be like, why do you shop so much and then you come home with like, what
this $3,000 thing? It's an investment, but we get in trouble for going to target, 

[00:31:12] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, I know. I fully know that when Noah listens to this, he's gonna go play that to my wife and daughters, and they're just going to point at my office and be like, shut up. That's, I know that's happening. We're we're getting

[00:31:23] Max Cohen:

You're 

[00:31:24] Liz Murphy:

here for you, Kelly and Kaylee. I'm here for you and I see you and also George. This is an episode about HubSpot apps. Try to stay on topic. And with that in  mind, with that in mind, you actually bring up a couple of good points here. So number one,

Somebody finds the tiny little shopping bag, they have Vietnam level flashbacks about their wives, their daughters, their girlfriends going shopping, and then they bring it back in.

Or you're a woman going, man, when will he stop buying $3,000 things? But you get there and you ready to start taking a look. The app marketplace, you ready to start thinking about how do I integrate this into what it is that I'm doing when I have no idea what any of. Yes. How do you even begin to navigate?
How do you ask yourself certain questions? Do you just start clicking things like, what do we do here?

[00:32:06] Max Cohen:

Ooh, pick me, pick me. Pick me. Because this is a conversation I love having with people. And I don't know if I've done, I don't know if I've said this little, metaphor on the podcast before, maybe I have, but whenever you're thinking, oh, I need HubSpot to do something else, or I need to integrate it with something, there's a, I call it the three layer dip method, step one, you go on the app market. And you, and you try to find like a native app already built there, you go and try to see is there an integration? Is there an app that does it like, like whatever, and the thing you always gotta be careful with is like, just cuz there's an integration doesn't mean it works the way you need it to, So always kind of put that in the back of your head, but step one, just see if it already exists, If it doesn't start thinking. Like IPAs systems. So information paths through as a service, So instead of a marketplace app, try to see if you can build what the functionality you're trying to get outta.
Something like a Zapier, a Workato, a syncy, like some sort of application that helps you connect different apps to HubSpot, but do it in like a no or low code way, That you can kind of build the functionality or the syncing rules or whatever that you. Without having to dev it out. If that doesn't work, what you gotta remember is that HubSpot's APIs exist,

There's an end point for pretty much almost every single feature inside of HubSpot. No matter what type of information you want to push and pull back in nine times outta 10, you're gonna find a way to do it through the api. The downside of that method is that you have to pay developers to do it, but the upside of the method is, You could kind of build anything you want on HubSpot, Something that a lot of people don't know about, are what are called serum extensions, specifically custom cards. Custom cards allow developers to build in custom software experiences inside of HubSpot, So if you have like an internal app at your company, you can literally like build this little card that shows up on records.

Like launches an interface inside of HubSpot and like that could be an internal system you already use, or it could be like a totally custom app you've built for your business that you want people to be able to interact with off of like a deal record or a company record. Or a contact record, So there's all these varying levels of easy one click kind of install and everything in between to.
If you have the team and the resources to build it on your own, you can build almost anything on HubSpot using custom cards and the APIs, right? it really kind of depends on like your creativity, what you're trying to do with it, things like that. but just always remember there's that three layer dip kind of method, whatever you're trying to accomplish something.

And sometimes it's an integration, sometimes it's building in custom functionality, It really kind of just depends on what your use case.

[00:34:48] George B. Thomas:

All right, so I love that you mentioned three layers. Cause I'm gonna go three layers. In a different direction. Because here's the thing, I want to go back to this whole shopping analogy. First of all, I don't go shopping. I go buying. Okay? That's what I do. I go buying. And so if I go to the store, I know where I'm headed.

It's down the aisle. Two rows, turn right, grab the mayonnaise, and we're outta here. Okay? So when I think about three layers in the marketplace, max, there's three places 

[00:35:17] Liz Murphy:

I am being mansplained about shopping. 
I want everybody to be clear about what is happening right now. I got Mansplained about time earlier, and now I'm getting mansplained 

[00:35:28] Max Cohen:

I didn't. 

[00:35:29] George B. Thomas:

Well, that was before we hit record, but 
anyway. 

[00:35:31] Liz Murphy:

Well, now it's on the record. I wasn't gonna say anything because it's Max's big day, but I am feeling attached. But George, it sounds like you're bringing up a really good conversation about.

[00:35:42] George B. Thomas:

I am trying to talk about the main aisles that people should be paying attention to in the store. First of all, if you haven't been to the app marketplace, you need to go to the free apps. It's on the left hand side. You'll see literally free apps, and you just need to scroll through there and look at things that you might not realize, like for instance, the LinkedIn one.

Or Facebook Messenger one, or the Google meets, Google Contacts one or the Canva one, or there's just a bunch of free ones that you can start to look at and see what additional functionality will it add The next aisle that I definitely want people to look at, and again, I'm gonna start doing this weekly at at least probably monthly, but I'd like to do it weekly and just look at new apps, like who are the new players in the game that you know, and going through those results and seeing, like right now, you know, there's North Text, sms, there's Send Buzz, there's company cam, there's voice spin, there's boomy, all sorts of new apps.

Last but not least, what are the tried and trues? Go down the third aisle and look at popular apps, the ones that all the historical HubSpot users have deemed that these are the popular apps that everybody wants to use. Those are three aisles. Listen, I'm saving you time. You don't have to shop the whole store.
Just go down the three main aisles. You'll
be good to 

[00:36:59] Liz Murphy:

And Kelly and Kaylee, uh,  I just 

[00:37:01] George B. Thomas:

here we go

[00:37:02] Liz Murphy:

that I'm on your side and you can go down any aisle that you want. Now, you know what I do love about this layering method? We now have a six layer app dip. That we've developed. 

[00:37:12] George B. Thomas:

Is that another app like that we can eat like at 
happy hour? 

[00:37:16] Liz Murphy:

I don't know. Apparently we're all very
hungry and we did not know this or this is what happens when Dev Devin leaves us unattended. Is he the true host? 

[00:37:25] George B. Thomas:

it's Devin's fault. It really, we're gonna blame Devin cuz  he's not here. 

[00:37:28] Liz Murphy:

think we need to be fair to Devin. This is
a very emotional time for him. This is his first time with Max is not a fellow Hubspotter. So Devin, we see you. We are with you. And I also know you would never shame me about shopping. I love you, 

[00:37:40] Max Cohen:

Wait, wait, hold on. I'm just looking through the new apps right now. There's one called, it says chat, G P T for your meetings. And it's called W Woodpecker. Like it's called W U d, pecker. Woodpecker.

[00:37:58] Liz Murphy:

Guys, do you think we're doing a good job of making the case for HubSpot to have us do a live show? Are we doing great? Let 
us know. Let us know 

[00:38:06] Max Cohen:

it. 

[00:38:07] Liz Murphy:

shopping opinions at gb, at George gbt.

[00:38:10] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, at chat G B T. 

[00:38:13] Liz Murphy:

Oh my gosh. All right. All right. All right.
Hold on. This is one 

[00:38:16] George B. Thomas:

Maybe that's not wood. Maybe it's wood. Maybe

[00:38:19] Max Cohen:

What Woodpecker

[00:38:21] George B. Thomas:

Like Elmer

[00:38:22] Max Cohen:

did you log your notes on? Woodpecker. I,

[00:38:26] George B. Thomas:

we love you, whoever you are. We love you.

[00:38:28] Max Cohen:

out to Woodpecker.

[00:38:30] George B. Thomas:

yeah, we, 

[00:38:31] Max Cohen:

Shout out to Woodpecker. I just didn't know how to say the name. Sounds pretty cool. 

[00:38:34] Liz Murphy:

I'm sorry. I was just waiting for somebody to say something interesting. 

[00:38:36] Max Cohen:

So

[00:38:36] George B. Thomas:

Oh.

[00:38:38] Max Cohen:

we're waiting for you. That's why we're waiting for you.

[00:38:40] George B. Thomas:

Be careful. Be careful. You're tread on the ice max,

[00:38:43] Max Cohen:

I'm saying, you're saying the interesting stuff. 

[00:38:45] Liz Murphy:

Maximilian,

[00:38:46] Max Cohen:

What 

[00:38:47] Liz Murphy:

many apps in the HubSpot app Marketplace End when in Lee

[00:38:50] Max Cohen:

In Lee? Oh man. Probably how many SAS companies and Inly. Oh wait, I work for what? 

[00:38:58] George B. Thomas:

you

[00:38:58] Liz Murphy:

Did you just get that? Did you just get 

[00:39:02] Max Cohen:

just realized it. 

[00:39:03] Liz Murphy:

Oh, I was owning you. It 

[00:39:05] Max Cohen:

You know? Yeah. 

[00:39:08] Liz Murphy:

All right. All right. All right. So what I'm hearing is that from the, from the you, Jesus, what I'm hearing is from, you know, I, we just want to thank our sponsors, whatever it is that George is drinking, that caffeinated, fizzy beverage, Max's Lid Brigade.

We also appreciate your support, and shopping anonymous. You know, I've learned today that I have a problem now. When I think about HubSpot apps, what I've been hearing this whole time, cuz I came into this conversation also wanting to learn about this, right? Because I think, like you said, we all have main nav, we get stuck.

In the main network. And to be clear, HubSpot is amazing. It's why we're here. Talk in the talk, walk in the walk, but it sounds like it really comes down to a bit of exploration here. You are not gonna know what apps are right for you until you go click on that shopping bag and start taking a look at what's around and start experimenting and thinking about what your goals are.

So if you were to leave someone with one piece of advice, either a thing they need to do or a thing they should avoid doing as they're going. Seven layer app dip exploration. What is it and why?

[00:40:13] Max Cohen:

get your free trial on. mean, a lot of these different apps on there, they've got free trials. You can usually try 'em for free, play around with it, but also just like ask the right questions. Like a lot of them do cost money. and, and also don't, like here's the thing, don't ah, man.

Cause I'm kind of gonna, I'm not, I'm not trying to like call anybody. That I used to work with. But I think this is actually just a, this is a thing common across SaaS companies in general. So I'll say that when you're talking to salespeople and people say, oh yeah, we have an integration with that. It doesn't mean that integration is gonna do exactly what you want it to do, So if you are ever exploring buying a piece of software, whether it's HubSpot or anything else, and you know you've gotta have it talked to some other system or whatever. Just cuz they say there's an integration doesn't mean the integration works the way you want it to. So ensure that you talk to the right people that like own the integration or sell the integration or make the integration or like whatever it is clearly explain your use case if you can free trial it.

Free trial it, right. But just don't, don't take, yes. We have an app that does that or yes, we have an integration with X, Y, Z at face value like vet.

[00:41:21] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, because, because I've run into some integrations that communicate like a kindergartner. When I. Master's
degree. 

[00:41:28] Liz Murphy:

Look at you with that metaphor nicely. That was a great metaphor. Good chapter, max. I'm really loving how I said, tell me one thing and I got three, but they were three very good things, so I'm gonna shame you, but I'm gonna Thank you, George. 

[00:41:39] Max Cohen:

Wasn't it all one thing? Just really long? 

[00:41:41] Liz Murphy:

No, you can't go 1, 2, 3 and say it's all one thing. 

[00:41:46] Max Cohen:

Hmm.

[00:41:46] George B. Thomas:

Well, it it you. Hey, listen, listen, you can have an apple pie and cut it into three pieces. It's still one apple pie.

[00:41:53] Max Cohen:

Yeah, based,

[00:41:54] George B. Thomas:

I'm just saying 

[00:41:54] Liz Murphy:

were three different points. Those were three actively different pies. 

[00:41:58] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, it was the

[00:41:59] Max Cohen:

rhubarb

[00:42:00] George B. Thomas:

it was the apple sauce stuff. And it was 
the crust. No. Okay. Hey, max, I'm trying, I'm trying to be hearing for you, brother. here's the thing. My one thing actually has zero to do with the app marketplace. my one thing is, and it's, it's. At the end of the day, the one thing I would want you to take from this conversation is what are the gaps that are in the way of your success or streamlining your teams or being able to, you know, be more cohesive conversationally with the people that you're serving?

Like what, what are the problems and gaps or hurdle? That you're facing. Once you diagnose those, then dive into the app marketplace and start to do research on what 2, 3, 4 apps solve those problems, fill
those gaps, allow you to move faster, grow better. 

[00:42:52] Liz Murphy:

Love it. Are you guys ready for this week's Haiku

[00:42:54] Max Cohen:

Yeah.

[00:42:55] George B. Thomas:

Oh, 

[00:42:56] Liz Murphy:

George? I know you're excited.

[00:42:57] George B. Thomas:

yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm excited. 

[00:42:59] Liz Murphy:

George and Max Mansplain. Shopping tips to Liz, but wait, she owns the mall. Guys, I'm out. Happy Hub. Heroes recording day. Everybody join us next week would, it'll hopefully be less chaotic. 

[00:43:14] George B. Thomas:

Yeah, definitely will be back. It'll be less  chaotic.

[00:43:16] Liz Murphy:

please come 

[00:43:17] Max Cohen:

never less chaotic. We only get more and more chaotic.

[00:43:20] George B. Thomas:

We try people, we're doing  our best. 

[00:43:23] Liz Murphy:

We love you. We'll talk to you next week.